CSEA HISTORY PROJECT
BETTY COLLINS INTERVIEW
7/9/03
INTERVIEWER: I'm up here.
MS. COLLINS: All right. Betty
Collins, Betty C. Collins, and so I started out,
the ladies' garment worker back in the late
thirties and early forties, so I was a Union
person way back.
INTERVIEWER: Way back.
MS. COLLINS: In New York, West 63,
7th Avenue.
INTERVIEWER: Oh.
MS. COLLINS: Garment. I modeled.
INTERVIEWER: (Inaudible.)
MS. COLLINS: Yeah. I modeled but,
look now, and then I did other work so I got
involved with the Union there. Then my mom and
dad came back to Troy so I came back to Troy,
and I met my husband there and that was that.
I went to work in the Watervliet
Arsenal, and again I was very involved, helped
organize the Union, but then I got sick and I
left, so my brother says to me, you know,
Harriet's ex-boss over the Insurance Department
and she would -- you know, she's lookin' for
somebody, so I said I don't want to go. He says
please go.
So that was April 23rd, 1970. I was
interviewed and when the woman that interviewed
me, it was like the Assistant Director of
Licensing, took me down personnel and she says,
I want her, so I says I really don't want to go
to work now because I had just become a
grandmother and I said I don't want it. And he
said, Mr. whatever his name was, he was asleep
behind the desk.
This was when Insurance was on 324
State Street and they had three floors. The
bottom floor was the rumpus room, finance,
personnel and I think consumer service. Well,
okay. So -- well, he says, when do you want her
to start? She said yesterday. This was the
23rd. I started the 24th.
I came in and I was being shown around
and maybe three hours later this woman came over
to me and she said, listen, do you want to join
our Union? I said, yeah, I guess so. What is
it? She told -- never knew there was a CSEA.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: And so I said okay, I'll
sign the card, and she says, now, would you be
our treasurer? (Laughter.) I said what? What
do you have to do? She said, well, our
treasurer just went to another agency and nobody
wants the job. I says what does it entail and
they told me. I said all right, but when I tell
this to Mary, she says that never happened. It
wouldn't happen today. I says it did then.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: Well, anyways, Jim
Cline, who was the deputy superintendent, was a
CSEA member. Joe Smith, who was the director of
licensing, he was a CSEA member, but then the
minute they became, you know, they changed, why
all our CSEA people that were professionals
became PEF or management or nothing.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: So from that day
forward, April 24th, 1970, I was treasurer and I
became involved in the Union.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: But then as time went on
I didn't want to stay and they said please take
the test. I took the test; then I ran for
office. I was president, vice president,
president again, and then I became involved with
Elk Street. That's when we were there and so on
and so forth, and so for all these years I have
been very active.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: I have seen a lot go on.
I don't know whether they told you, but I make
very good cheesecake.
INTERVIEWER: (Inaudible.)
MS. COLLINS: Well, since Mo went --
Maureen went on her diet, that when I saw her at
the meeting, the insurance meeting the 20th of
May and I saw her put that weight back, I was
ready to kill her, and so we used to meet over
the Thruway Motel.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: We'd have our board of
directors meetings there. I was on the board of
directors for years, and I did a lot for them
and I would bring our cheesecakes and Mike
Curtin, John Lennon, he was president of
Region 3, Irv Flamingbaum was of Region 1, and
he didn't like it but they brought their wives,
so between John Lennon and his wife and Irv's
wife, they used to eat the cheesecakes, and Mike
Curtin.
And it was funny. When we'd come at
that time -- do you remember the Thruway Motel?
INTERVIEWER: Sure.
MS. COLLINS: Remember when you'd come
in the lobby, if you looked in you could look
right in to where the booths were and
everything?
INTERVIEWER: Sure.
MS. COLLINS: Well, I used to go and
sneak in over that way. Everybody loved the
cheesecake but Irv Flamingbaum. He loved nuts
and if you'd bring nuts he could eat the whole
thing.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: And that was that. And
then as time went on, first -- oh, I know. We
had just become affiliated with AFSCME --
INTERVIEWER: Yeah (inaudible).
MS. COLLINS: In 1978, and the
following year we went to -- I don't know
whether it was a Region 4 workshop or was a
delegates' meeting and we were at the Lake
Placid Club. How we got in there I don't know
because we found out later that it was condemned
and we shouldn't have been there and we were
burning wood that night. We were burning
everything, it was so cold, and Jerry Wirf was
there with Mildred and he gave a speech.
Now when he spoke, you could hear a
pin drop. I grew up in Brooklyn. Can't tell,
can ya? And he was talking about this. He said
growing up he remembered -- he lived in
Brooklyn, too, and he says, you never knew from
day to another when you came home from work
whether you would go into the same house because
you were always being evicted, and when he spoke
you could hear a pin drop because Jerry Wirf was
Jerry Wirf, and we're all sitting there and
we're having dinner and he starts to talk about
that and I snickered and his wife looked at me
like she could kill me. You know, you don't do
that when Jerry's talking.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: Well, we had just met
Jerry Wirf. We had met him before, but we met
him now, so all the networks around here, 6, 13
and 10, were interviewing him. He stopped his
interview and he saw and he went like this
(indicating) and I says hi. You know when I
speak I don't like to hear people laugh or even
talk. I don't even like the dishes moving. I'm
thinking, oh, gee, not knowing that he was such
a big shot.
So he says what were you laughing at?
I says, you know, Mr. Wirf, you grew up in
Brooklyn, didn't you? He said yes. I said I
did, too, and that was during the Depression. I
said I went to work. When I was working at 463
I was the only one working in our house. You
couldn't get a job then.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: My kid brother who
passed away last year, he was 77 at the time, he
would wait for me at the subway. He says we're
not going to that house ‘cause we had been
evicted (laughter) and I -- and we moved to
another house. And I says to Jerry -- he says,
oh, it happened to you, too? I says so when you
said that, I says so many years earlier, I said
it brought back memories and I had to laugh
‘cause I thought we were the only one, you know.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: You're welfare, you
know. So after that he kind of liked me, you
know, as time went on, and then when we went to
AFSCME, our first convention with him, that was
in 1980, it was nice. I remember that. They
treated us like we were gold because we were the
biggest local. We sat down front and one thing
about them, they knew everybody, because the
hotel we stayed at, the Yankees were stayin'
there, I remember, and then after they left the
Boston Red Sox came in, you know --
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: So anyway we'd have a
lot of fun there and so Bill Lucey, right?
INTERVIEWER: Yes.
MS. COLLINS: He came in to the bar --
of course, we always stayed where they stayed
because they figured we're their biggest local.
Naturally we have to be treated differently,
which we were. And he came in and I think he
had his wife with him and we would talk and we
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went over and said, hello, and he says, and how
are you, Betty Collins? And I looked at him. I
says how do you know who I -- oh, he says, I
make sure to know who the people are. He must
have gone down the whole delegates' list.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: ‘Cause I think we had
about 132 or somethin' and Capital District had
the most, you know, and so we became very good
friends and every -- and we'd sit down for
conventions, we'd sit down front. And this one
time Joan Tobin and I, God rest her soul, had to
go to the bathroom and he says where you goin',
and we told him. He says you can't go now
‘cause we were right down in front. He was
being funny, you know, because we were the only
people that really stayed.
One thing about CSEA, when we'd go any
place, no matter who it where -- no matter who
it was or where we were, we were always there.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: We used to go to
conventions, we'd party, but the next morning
everybody was out on the floor.
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INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
(Pause. )
INTERVIEWER: We're back on.
MS. COLLINS: Okay. Well, for that
convention, Joe McDermott wanted to run for,
what is it, the executive vice presidents they
have in AFSCME? And Irv Flamingbaum was one,
but I guess he was running for re-election or
something.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: And I remember we were
-- we were leaving Albany to go to Anaheim and
Joe Dolan, talking about Joe, we were all got
out of Albany. Then as we went along we met --
you know, in Chicago we picked up the Buffalo
group and whatever. And I brought a lot of
straw hats out because we figured Joe was going
to run and get elected, but then Irv was running
and I think everybody felt that Irv should have
it because he was a very nice man, very nice
man.
And, of course, he had a good person
behind him who today is our president of CSEA,
because where you serve -- where you saw Irv,
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Danny was right behind him, and so that year he
was elected, Irv was elected, and he was a -- he
was a very peaceful and quiet man but he was a
big man, big.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: And he was a very good
president. Then we had Sol Bendet. Did you
know about Sol?
INTERVIEWER: I haven't heard about
Sol.
MS. COLLINS: You never heard about
Sol?
INTERVIEWER: Did we hear about Sol?
INTERVIEWER: No.
MS. COLLINS: Well, he was Region 2's
president and he was a lawyer in the Insurance
Department, and he was another one, when he got
up you listened and he spoke, but how I got
involved with Elk Street, Rita Madden at that
time was the president, and when I became the
treasurer she wasn't very happy because, you
know, nowadays when I go to workshops or
something, I see the people and they are not the
group when I was working. You know, they're
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there to party.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: They're not interested
or anything. If you ask them something about a
contract they wouldn't know. They wouldn't know
what you were talking about, but we had Sol
Bendet and when he'd get up, he walked -- he was
a short man. He was a sweetheart. He was from
the Insurance Department in New York and he
always walked to a side, but when he got up you
can rest assure that our meeting was gonna go on
because he talked a lot. He argued a lot, but
that time everybody was there. Everybody read
their contract.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: When they went out, I
remember I was president of the Insurance
Department, and I remember Bonnie was my first
vice president, Bonnie Luinello, and at that
time we were going out on strike. We were gonna
strike and they always made sure I wasn't around
because if they were gonna hand out, you know,
tickets for going out striking and all that,
they didn't want me. She could get it and would
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be all right, not the president.
But anyway I became involved with Joan
Tobin, all of us DOT people, and when we'd have
a board of directors meeting, Region 4 usually
sat here and our group, it was Joan Tobin, it
was Marie Rominelli from New Paltz, what's her
name, Toddin -- Elaine Toddy from Buffalo. We
had from all over but we were a group that we
were activists. Whatever had to go on, we did.
So Ted Wenzel was president then.
Then he left and Bill McGowan became our
president and, you know, he -- he was a tough
man but that's how -- when they asked for
people, like during the war they would say --
they asked for volunteers, and the poor slob,
everybody would step back and he was still
standing there.
(Laughter. )
MS. COLLINS: You know? So it was the
same way and -- so they used to ask for help. I
was there. And to me, I learned all about the
Union and we got up to speak, we'd know what we
were talking about. We read everything we got.
I do that now with the Medicare things.
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INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: But still, we were -- we
were a very close group. But again, to repeat
myself, the group they have now, they really
don't care, but then after Bill left we had
McDermott and Joe was a tough man, too. And
then after he retired we had Danny, of course,
and then we have -- we had -- another one that
got me very involved was Irene Carr.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, Irene.
MS. COLLINS: I talked to her Saturday
and told her what they were doing. She says,
Betty, if they have a tape, do you think -- you
know, she can hardly talk.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: And she says
(whispering) do you think I can have a tape? Of
course, when I talk I'd say, you shut up. I
don't want to hear from you. I'm doing the
talking. Just shake your head. Through the
telephone? And she was another one that got me
very involved.
Then, of course, there's Dave Stack,
who I love dearly. He -- he found out that I
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was good with figures, so I was -- we were --
oh, this is another thing. We were at the
Concord, a convention, and Mike Carroll who is
over at Jardine now, I still say Jardine -- was
the chairperson of -- to study -- a committee we
had to study the group life -- to study the cost
of operating group life.
Now, Travelers, because we do all the
billing and the deductions and everything here,
they gave -- I don't know whether I'm telling
tales out of school, but that's the way it is.
We would get like $300,000 a year. For that we
had to use to -- the billing, the people that
worked on it here, so on, so forth, and I got on
that committee.
Mike Carroll, we were at the
convention at the Concord, and I remember we
were in his room and he said, now, I'm leaving.
I'm going to headquarters, so he appointed Mike
Curtin and I to the committee. Well, then, when
Mike Curtin got another job, still with the
Union, I took it over and Dave Stack always used
to say to me, you -- you have the best
committee. You ask questions so, anyway, I'm --
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I'm his special person.
So with that then, Irv was still alive
then. Irv was still alive.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: Yeah, he was still
alive. And then our treasurers, they were very
good. Jack Gallagher, then Mary, then Barbara
Fauser and then now, Mo.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: I was there. In other
words, I was one of the group.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: Not because I was one of
the group, but because whenever they called,
wanted something, I was there. Now, Irene Carr,
when she'd leave in the morning to go, like on
the train --
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: Go someplace, she'd call
me up six o'clock in the morning. She's at
Rensselaer, and she'd say, I forgot to tell, I
think it was Lorraine was her person, something.
Would you call and tell her, so she told
everybody I was her administrative assistant and
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so she helped me a lot. I wanted to know, when
I went to work in the Insurance Department, when
I was at the Arsenal I was in cost accounting.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: So it's -- I don't know
if you're like that, but I feel this way. If
you're gonna start a job, you wanna know what
makes the job, so I was in licensing and I
remember Dorothy Vadney saying, I want you to
learn how to do that. So she says to this girl,
why don't you train her, so, okay, so I'd take a
pencil out, start writing. She's what are you
writing? I said about the work. Oh, my
mother's a school teacher. I said what's that
got to do with me learning it, but it was the
same way in the Arsenal. I wanted to know you
become a licensed agent --
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: -- and follow the whole
circle around. Well, that helped me, too. And
then the same way here.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: When I retired, the
first thing they did was put me on the Insurance
19
Committee and I'm the retiree on the Insurance
Committee ‘cause I came from the -- and I know,
but there were so many people, like Bob
Lattimer.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: He -- he had a loud
voice. When you'd get up there, he never used a
microphone. You know, I watched all these
people go. We've lost a lot of our people and,
to me, the Union -- now I'll tell you a funny
story. I couldn't sleep last night and I
usually watch the Cosby Kids, the Cosby Show.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: So I says, well, I'll
get on the computer, see if I got any mail, so I
get on the computer and sure enough, there's a
letter. It says -- I got a message.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: And I push it to see.
It's my niece who lives in New York and it's a
letter. Hi, Bob. How did you get my aunt's
e-mail letter? Does she know you? And she goes
on to tell him all about me and she says -- she
said eighty-six, but I'm eighty-five. And she
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says she's involved in this, she's involved in
that. She's doing this, she's doing that. And
I -- I couldn't imagine who was this Bob that I
sent the letter to. I looked through all the
names. I don't have a Bob. So, anyway, she's
so proud of her aunt, that she learned how to do
a comp...work on a computer.
My visiting nurse came one day and he
says to me, why don't you get yourself a
computer? I said what do I want a computer for?
So my son had just bought a new one and this one
was about six months old. He says I'll give it
to you, Mom, and he went and got the desk and I
love it, but that's what they kidded me about.
What are you doin' on the computer now?
But, let me see, who else can I tell
you about that was very nice? Oh, Al Mead was
nice. C. Allen. His name is C. Allen Mead and
I always call -- and he -- when we used to go to
conventions, this is something they don't do any
more, I hear. We would -- everybody would have
a captain. This was in Region 4. Joe -- Joe
was president of the region at that time and
he'd appoint Al and everybody had to be out on
21
the floor the next morning. No matter where we
were --
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: -- we counted heads and
all that, and we were just a knitted group. But
I'll tell you something, Capital District people
are very close knit, our group here in the
Capital.
And getting back to the people that
are there now --
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: -- they are not Union
activists. No. They are -- I get -- I get so
provoked.
INTERVIEWER: What does it take? I
mean, what --
MS. COLLINS: What does it take? It
takes somebody that's dedicated, you know. All
of them are in there for a party. I don't know
whether they want to be recognized or something,
but like we have Ellen Burke. She was the
Women's Committee. Now we have a group on the
Women's Committee. They don't even know what's
goin' on. Poor Cindy. I feel so sorry for her.
22
Maybe they're abusing my brains, I don't know,
but it's -- it's just a shame.
But I feel as a retiree we could go
much further. There's a lot of things. I get
very angry when we want something for the
retirees and they say, well, you know, it wasn't
voted on and this, that and the other thing.
But yet, when they need people for telephones,
the retirees are right there.
INTERVIEWER: Right.
MS. COLLINS: And they're -- you know,
then they need them when they have rallys here,
the retirees are there.
INTERVIEWER: Don't give up the fight.
MS. COLLINS: Oh, I won't give up the
fight.
INTERVIEWER: I want to go back to --
now, you were on the board, I think, when --
when AFSCME -- when the affiliation was
considered. How -- how did that go? What were
you -- what were you doing then? How did you
feel about it? What did you --
MS. COLLINS: Well, a lot of people
didn't want it.
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INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: ‘Cause we had a
committee that go out. I think Bob Lattimer was
on it, Dolores Farrell, there was quite a few
that were on that committee.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: But a lot of them didn't
really know.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: No.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: Really didn't know what
-- what are they gonna offer us? What do we
have to do? Do we have to pay them or
something?
INTERVIEWER: Well, you obviously
looked into it because that's what you do.
MS. COLLINS: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Well, what did you --
how did you feel about it?
MS. COLLINS: Okay. I felt good.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah?
MS. COLLINS: Because we could learn a
lot of things from them.
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INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: You know, specially that
they were in Washington.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: You know, and --
INTERVIEWER: So how did it come
about? I mean, what's your recollection of all
of that?
MS. COLLINS: Well, it came about --
there was whispers, something about another
Union, and we figured, look, we just went
through with PEF and all that, and we lost a lot
of good people and -- well, another thing we had
by us -- for them going to management and PEF
was that a lot of people were worried that had
insurance and the only way -- we voted on it.
The only way they could keep it, they were known
as associate members. They paid a dollar a year
and they kept their insurance.
Now, we were at the convention two
years ago, the Retiree Convention, and Karen
Gilgoff, I love her, and of course, Steve. I
remember when Steve's wife -- Barb was pregnant
with the boy that's goin' to college or he's all
25
grown up now.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: And we got to know these
people. See, to us, it was like goin' to a
party and standing there in the corner not
knowing anybody.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: And then as we got to
know them, I mean, we knew Steve, I think -- I
think Steve helped a lot to make us aware that
they're not ogres or something and they're gonna
kill us, so I liked it. A lot of peple were,
well, what are they gonna do for us and what do
we have to pay?
Well, naturally you -- they took so
much money and this and that, but it worked out
very well. And then when -- of course, when
Jerry died and Jerry McEntee took over, you
know, when he speaks, you listen. He and Bill
Lucey.
And then when our people became
executive VPs on it, you know, it seemed to help
a little bit, but there was still -- there's
still a lot of people say, what are they doin'
26
for us? They're sayin' the same thing about the
CSEA. What am I getting out of it?
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: You know.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: But --
INTERVIEWER: What do you say to them?
MS. COLLINS: Excuse me?
INTERVIEWER: What do you say to those
people?
MS. COLLINS: The same thing. What
are you doing for them?
INTERVIEWER: What are you putting in,
right?
MS. COLLINS: Well, they didn't like
me. A lot of people in the Insurance Department
didn't like me because they would come in. I'd
come -- I'd leave my house at -- I don't drive.
I would leave my house at 25 to 6, go up the
street, get the bus, change in Troy and then get
here. Well, on our floor we had files, and in
these files, they were called BC files, and
these are the people of the agents that are bad
boys and bad girls. Somebody -- we never locked
27
the office. We had eight floors in the Empire
Plaza.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: And so they found out
somebody was touching them so I got a key ‘cause
I came in early. Well, I came in early. I got
there at 6:30. I would start the coffee. I'd
do my CSEA business and then started work at
7:30. That was called alternate; not flex, but
alternate hours because we -- how it came about,
we had one girl, no matter what time she came
in, she was always late. If you gave her 7:30,
she'd be there at 8. If you gave her 8, she was
there at 8:30.
Well, anyway, so we had a lot of
people that if you asked them to do something,
no, I don't have to do it. It's not my job
description. I says, other duties as assigned.
Well, Joe Bikarian, I don't know whether you
knew him. He was one of our field reps. He
died. He was a sweetheart. He was our field
rep. I'm gonna bring it up, a grievance.
Well, I used to say to them, you may
be working for the State but you still owe them
28
8 hours or 7 1/2, whatever it was, and they'd
say, no, you're with management. No, I'm not.
You deserve to give them your day's work.
Well, when we used to talk about it,
I'll bet at other unions you don't have to do
it. Well, I'd know what they did, you know, and
-- but they finally came, you know. I think
AFSCME's done a lot, done a lot for us, but you
also, you know, should expect to do something
to, like giving away something and then not
saying thank you, go to hell, drop dead, or
something like that.
INTERVIEWER: Right.
MS. COLLINS: But --
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: When we had -- when they
-- when it first came about at the board of
directors meeting, there was a lot of pros and
cons, you know. They -- a lot of them were
afraid. Are we gonna lose our identity or
what --
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: But I think it worked
out good, but getting back to the people we have
29
now, they are not -- they are not the group
because it was so wonderful. You know, in fact,
I called Bob Foley. He was one of our
activists. I said what was the name of the man,
Bernie, from Comp Board, and he said, no, I
don't think it was him. This man would get up,
he was about six feet four, at our board of
directors meetings --
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: -- and they'd all talk
and knew -- they'd have papers and their
contracts or the different things in front of
them and it was good. You had it goin' both
ways, but now. Now March 14th we had a -- our
president of Region 4, Kathy Garrison. We used
to have like one workshop for one committee,
well, she decided instead of having the Women's
Committee she would have all her committees in
the region.
Well, I sat in on most of them. I
never saw such people. I said these are our
members, our activists? So, but there's an
awful lot. We had -- we lost a lot of good
people. We had Jenn Clark in Buffalo and so
30
Many, so many good people. Joan Tobin, she was
one of our first vice presidents, and she was
right there fighting for our members and so on
and so forth. But a lot of people don't
appreciate that.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: They say that's their
job.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, but people can --
MS. COLLINS: You know, their job and
then some. That's what you should do. Your job
and then some. That's what I always try to do.
INTERVIEWER: Well, let me ask you
something. What -- you've been a long time in
CSEA. What are you most proud of in CSEA?
MS. COLLINS: Being a member.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah?
MS. COLLINS: Being a member.
INTERVIEWER: That's good.
MS. COLLINS: And sometimes, you know,
sometimes I'll say, do they really appreciate
me? Now when I was in hospital in March, from
the 24th to April 9th, I was at St. Mary's
Hospital in Troy, and the Sisters sitting at the
31
desk, the information desk, she called up and
she says, you now, we got some flowers here for
you. And I said okay and she says we'll have
somebody send 'em up. She says but they're the
most gorgeous thing. So when they came up to
the room, I looked at the flowers and I saw they
were from The Surroundings, and then I saw the
card and it was Danny, Mary, Barbara and
Maureen.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: And I -- I had such a
feeling. I said why did they send it? And then
when I was talking to Maureen she says because
we wanted to because you're our Betty Collins.
You're right there.
INTERVIEWER: Sure.
MS. COLLINS: You're right there. Now
she had an operation and she called me last
night. She says why did you send that garden
plant? I said because I wanted to. But she
says you haven't got that kind of money. I says
how do you know what I have, you know, and she's
our person for the Insurance Committee.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
32
MS. COLLINS: And, you know, all these
people, I've got to know them. Like I had one
gal that came to work in the Insurance
Department and she had five children, held three
jobs, and she came in 1978. I fell in love with
her because here was a mother. The husband was
in the Navy, living with some girl in
California, wasn't sending any allotment, you
know. And you'd look at her. She didn't have
many things, you know.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: And she became my first
vice president, and then after I retired she
took over. She was a board member and they
treated her just like they treated me, you know,
and she -- but she's sickly now and she's
retired, but she isn't so active. I am. I'm
still -- because I think if I stop, that'll be
it. I'm even active with our Waterford Seniors.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: You know, but --
INTERVIEWER: You know, let me go back
now to your time of involvement with CSEA which
is still going on. What do you think were the
33
most important events while you've been in CSEA?
MS. COLLINS: Important events?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, some of the bigger
things.
MS. COLLINS: Well, the thing when we
became AFSCME, when we went with AFSCME, when we
got all these raises. I'll tell ya something,
when I first came to work, April 24th, I came in
as a GS-3 and I was making $3000-something. By
the end of that year I was making 6000.
Rockefeller was the one that was giving all the
big raises. And because of that, whenever an
increment came due and as I got promotions, I
couldn't go to the next step because I'm already
makin' that money because of that 1970.
Everybody got big raises back then, but the fact
is that I've learned a lot. I've met a lot of
people, people that are my very close friends.
Even that guy up there, that Danny.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: And it's done a lot for
me. I try to talk to people about that but they
don't wanna listen.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
34
MS. COLLINS: I have a couple of
retirees in our Center there and they're glad
they're the hell out of there. They say I'm
glad I'm the hell out of there, you know? And
then -- see, our local, our retiree local, we
have over 6000 members, and I was treasurer for
that from 1989 till 1998, and the people that
have it now, we have nine counties and when we
were in office we used to call them, because a
lot of them are like Hamilton, Schoharie County,
all those counties. Now not everybody could
come, so we made sure that they knew what was
going on and everything, but a lot of these
retirees just are retired, not for the sake of
the Union, because they could keep their
insurance.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: So you don't find people
coming out and a lot of our activists don't care
any more. They say I've had enough of it, you
know.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: So -- but as far as I'm
concerned, I mean, God willing, as long as I can
35
go on, you know.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m. But Association
means a lot to you.
MS. COLLINS: Oh, it does. It does.
But --
INTERVIEWER: Means a lot. Maybe
things will change in the future. I hope so.
MS. COLLINS: I hope -- if I live that
long.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, you will. I think
this is what's keeping you --
MS. COLLINS: Huh?
INTERVIEWER: I think this is what's
keeping you going, CSEA. And you're into -- is
there anything else? Any other recollections
you've got --
MS. COLLINS: Recollections.
INTERVIEWER: You've got all the
people's name, you've got -- what about the
future? What do you think CSEA's future is?
What have we learned from the past that can help
us in the future?
MS. COLLINS: In the past. In the
past, my time, we had the people that cared, but
36
I think a lot of these people don't care. You
know. It's a job. What the heck do I care.
Let them do it, and that's an awful way to look
at it.
INTERVIEWER: Well, but it's
experience, you know? I mean --
MS. COLLINS: You know, I listen to
them. When we were at the Sagamore and I saw
those people, they -- well, we had like Liz
Havanack and all of them that have been there a
long time, you know? She's a young lady and all
that, but they know. They were there fighting
and everything. This one says let them worry
about it.
INTERVIEWER: Well, maybe we need
another good fight, huh?
MS. COLLINS: We need something. We
need something. And like I was just telling
George, the man that brought me, I said I'ma
Republican but only Republican. And I said --
he keeps saying the war's over, Bush, and every
day I -- you know, I have two sons that work in
the Arsenal.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
37
MS. COLLINS: And every day -- in
fact, one son went to Egypt on Sunday for his --
his department became privatized and the doctor
from Switzerland that bought it, whatever
they're doing, it's the chrome something --
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: -- still does business
with Egypt because they're doing the same thing
and Charles has to go over and make sure and,
you know, I get so provoked to think that he
says the war is over and you hear so many more
were ambushed, this one was -- and, you know,
you talk to them and people -- I find that
people don't read.
Now we were down at the Center
yesterday, we're playing Bingo, and I said
something and she says, oh, I can't wait to go
home. I said why? She says I gotta watch my
story.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: I looked at her, what
story, General Hospital or something, and she's
a retiree from CSEA and all that. In fact, she
was one of the secretaries in the local and due
38
to the president she got out because he's the
only one that does anything. If not for his
group he wouldn't have anything. But anyway, I
said aren't you ever interested in what's goin'
on with CSEA? She says no, you tell me or
somebody will say you read it.
Now, when I used to go away and room
with Susan --
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: -- I'd read everything.
The minute we got the packet I'd read
everything. Don't you want to read it, Susan?
You read it and tell me about it. Same way with
Grace Vallee. She and I -- there's another lady
that was very active and her husband John was a
very active person and he was the type, when he
got up, he knew what he was talkin' about, knew
the contract backward and forward.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: And, you know, these are
Union people. I think you have to be -- of
course I started back with Ladies' Garment
Workers, so -- and I remember right before the
war we went to the Manhattan Opera House on
39
30 -- 30-something Street and you had all your
movie stars, all you people that used to be
involved in Unions were there, ‘cause they knew
something was goin' on and I used to go to them.
I lived in Brooklyn, but it was in New
York. Then you could ride on the subway any
hour of the night and nobody'd bother you.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: And -- so I became
fascinated with the Union and then we were
talkin' in 1966 about organizing at the
Watervliet Arsenal, we did.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: And I was glad. So --
but all in all, from the first day I was
fascinated with the Union.
INTERVIEWER: Good. Well, Betty, we
want to thank you. It's been really a pleasure
to talk to you. I hope you keep on being an
activist because, God knows, we need people like
you, you know? Just keep on being -- I think
you'll see a turnaround. I really do.
MS. COLLINS: You think so?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. I think it
40
cycles. I really do.
MS. COLLINS: But if -- I don't know.
This newer generation that's coming -- joining
the Union. They're joining it because they can
get insurance.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: And they can get this
and they can get that, but one thing I really
don't like is, like The Work Force, the paper.
We never used to have all that advertising, you
know. It's good. It's good for the members,
but there's a lot of people, you know -- and
another thing. The new people that are coming
in are of a different age, you know, a lot of
them coming out of school, although we haven't
been hiring anybody, you know.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, that's a problem.
MS. COLLINS: But the -- oh, AFSCME
now. I'm looking forward to going to the
convention next month. I'll see my friend
Steve, and I'll see my Karen --
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: All I can say is that
I've seen a lot happen.
41
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: A lot happen. People
have come and gone and we've lost a lot of our
good activists. Look at Irene, Irene Carr.
She, you know, I'm so glad they have the Irene
Carr Award for her because she -- she's a lady.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: She's a beautiful lady.
I love her. And like I'm crazy about Maureen,
‘cause we all -- she would eat my cheesecakes,
and Mary, Mary Sullivan and Barbara. I'll tell
you about Barbara.
INTERVIEWER: Okay.
MS. COLLINS: We were to the AFSCME
convention in 1988. My husband had passed away
in '87 and I went as a guest with Susan, and we
were -- the hotel we were at, I think it was the
Hyatt, and right across the street was the
Universal, and we were wondering. From our room
we could hear the shooting and the whatever, and
they were doing Miami Vice, so that was the year
that we had Tuwana Brawley going on.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, yeah.
MS. COLLINS: And Morton Downey, Jr.
42
was at our hotel and Jack Cassidy was from
Region 3 and he was loaded early in the morning
and he sees Morton Downey coming over and the
next thing he says, if she was a white girl
would you do anything? You know, he's goin' on
and he starts to fight with him. Now here it's
in the morning and we're gettin' ready to get on
the bus to go to the convention.
(Laughter. )
MS. COLLINS: So anyway, we had more
fun there, you know, and he was told, you know,
and of course AFSCME was at the hotel with us,
and you have to behave yourself. After all, you
never know who's gonna walk through, and that
time was so great. We had such good memories
and it was just like, what should I say, I
hadn't seen Bob Lucey in two years and when you
see him, you know, he hugs and kisses you. You
know, how are you, Betty, and this and that and
the other thing.
But it was so nice. It was so nice to
see all these people. Then in -- of course, a
lot of them were beginning to fail then. We had
elections that year of VPs and, I guess, Mary
43
was elected and then -- but the first one we
went to, that was wonderful. They treated us
like kings and queens.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: Although they were very
good. Then another time we had the convention
at Niagara Falls and that was the year Jimmy
Carter was running for re-election and from my
room at the hotel you could look over to where
the convention center was and you could see them
working.
Do you remember the firm of Roemer-
Featherstonhaugh?
INTERVIEWER: Sure. Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: Well, Mr.
Featherstonhaugh was very funny. We'd sit there
and watch, ‘cause we knew Jimmy Carter was
coming in and Jerry Wirf was still alive then
and there's chairs on the stage and he would run
behind each chair and then he'd say well,
Jerry's sittin' there and that's -- you know,
and went on. I think Bill was still our
president and it was a circus to watch all these
things, you know.
44
Jerry Wirf and -- Jerry was -- you
know he was lame and everybody, you know, would
look at him sometimes and, you know, they'd pass
it by.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: And they had to seat him
in the right place and Featherston was running
and you'd see the FBI, all the security people
coming in and they had the guns down from there
and we're just sitting in the audience waiting,
and he was gonna meet Jerry and all that.
There's so many stories. They're
funny and they're sad. And then if we were
someplace else, that was in '88, that was
another affair. We've been to so many things --
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: -- and some of them are
sad and some of them are, you know --
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-
MS. COLLINS: Like when we went in '88
we were at the hotel. Liz -- Lisa Minelli came
down in the hot weather with the big white mink
coat in the lobby talkin' to everybody. Grace
and I went over to the Universal -- of course,
45
Flo Trippey's cousin is -- he's a trumpet
player, little Italian man was Flo Trippey's
cousin, so we went over and then Grace and I got
locked in the studio. We're waitin’ for the bus
to come and pick us up and finally Security took
us home and at that time it was Diane Lucasy, Al
Mead, Billy McMann, John Goeway, Carm Bagnoli.
They all went to Disneyland. They were comin'
back and here we are getting out of the
Security. What did you two do?
(Laughter. )
MS. COLLINS: That was another thing,
but the one I'm talkin' about in ‘88 where our
hotel was, it was on top of the hill, so if you
were on top of the hill and you wanted to go
down to the bottom to a restaurant, the cab will
take you back down but they wouldn't bring you
back, so that night there must have been about
20 of us in this restaurant. Charlie Statt, do
you know him? Well, he's from Social Services,
and he was a big man. We're waiting for a cab,
waiting for a cab, and there was about eight of
us. I don't know how the others got home.
So Barbara Reeves and Bud Bunki were
46
coming out and they said, what are you guys
doing here? I said we can't get a cab to take
us up the hill, so they had a small car. All
you can imagine is, you know, in the circus with
the clowns (laughter), they all keep comin' out
of the little car? Well, we got in that car and
Charlie Statt and Dolores Farrell and Joan
Tobin. There was a whole bunch of us. We got
in that car and lots of times I'll say to
Barbara, Barbara, will you remember that night?
She says, yes, I'll remember that night.
But there's so many things that we
have that we can laugh about, and like Kathy,
who is Danny's secretary now, when I came to the
insurance meeting in May, she came in and, oh,
it was a hug and kissing and we had new people
on the committee, so she says, Bett, do you
remember those -- and she's lookin' and she
wondered, these people, is that what they do?
But, again, we partied and we worked.
We were there the next day. Otherwise Mr. Mead
would come looking for us, so all in all, I can
say my 33 years and a couple of months have been
a lot. A lot of sad things, a lot of happy
47
things, and I've made a lot of friends. They're
lifetime friends.
INTERVIEWER: M-m-m.
MS. COLLINS: And I hope we can do
more. But I hope we can do more for our
retirees.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MS. COLLINS: Because I -- when they
vote on a contract we only get the pittance, you
know. We can't get this, we can't get that, and
I don't know. But it's been a wonderful,
wonderful time.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. All right. I
think we're --
MS. COLLINS: Thank you.
INTERVIEWER: Thank you, Betty. It
was really great.
MS. COLLINS: Yeah?
INTERVIEWER: I really enjoyed it. I
really did.
(Whereupon, the interview of Betty
Collins was concluded. )
48
CERTIFICATE
I, JEANNE M. CARPENTIER, do hereby
certify that the preceding is a true and accurate
transcription of the taped proceedings held in
the above-entitled matter to the best of my
knowledge and belief.
Sworn to before me this
day of
My commission expires
CC BY-NC-SA 4.0