Transcript of interview with Nick Palacino, Undated

Interview with Nick Palacino

NP: My name is Nicholas Palacino. I've been associated with CSEA, believe it or
not, for over 50 years. I started way back, and that's going way back. I went to
work for the State of New York when I left the service. I was discharged from
World War II; I'm a World War II veteran. I went to work for the State of New
York. At that time we had no contracts, we had nothing and there was an
organization around they called CSEA but it was more of a social setup.

Well, first of all, the dues I was paying were 10 cents a week or something and
somebody in the office came around and collected, you know. I was very reluctant
to join any organization without knowing too much about it. But anyway, I became
involved and after a while, we formed locals in each division in the State of
New York and I became active in a division of employment, the Department of
Labor, as a grievance representative. So I worked for the State of New York on a
temporary job for twenty-three and a half years. My involvement with CSEA; I met
quite a number of people in CSEA and at one point I was approached and asked if
I would be interested in serving on the staff of CSEA as a field representative.
At that time there were no field representative; now they got a fancy name,
Labor Relations Specialist. So I then had to make a decision after twenty-three
and a half years of working for the State whether I was going to retire and join
the staff. I made the decision and I vested my rights with the State because I
wasn't old enough at the time and I became a staff member with CSEA. Well, I had
a career with CSFA of twenty years and then I decided uh...At that point, while
I was on staff, I was very fortunate because I was assigned in the Long Island
area, which was near my home, I didn't have to relocate. As a matter of fact,
that's where I met some of the most wonderful people I ever...I was assigned to
the psychiatric, I always remember this and I always got to give these people
credit. When I went to work servicing the psychiatric centers, that's Central
Islip, Pilgrim, Kings Park, I learned that the people that work in these places
are a different, I don't want to use the word breed, but these people were
dedicated people. You had to be dedicated to work there so I had a lot of
respect for those people because they worked hard under very, very bad
conditions. But I saw CSEA grow from, at that point they were like a paper
tiger. We had the potentialities but we never utilized...I attended a convention
at one time as a delegate where somebody got up and said that we ought to change
our name to CSEA Union and I think three or four ladies collapsed because they
thought that was a terrible thing. But I'm very happy to say that I've seen the
change in CSEA from a paper tiger into one of the most forceful and great unions
in the State of New York. And they did a tremendous amount of good for our
people. I know because I worked for the State and I know that we didn't have no
rights at all until we finally got a State contract and we were at least heard.
And this is what, when the Taylor Law was passed in 1968 and I went to work for
CSEA, one of the hardest jobs we had was sitting down with administration that
they had to talk to us. You see, up to this point, they only spoke to us when
they felt like talking to us. But now they were required by law and we danced
around quite some time. And during that time, as I said before, I was working in
one psychiatric unit where they had some problems with the local there and there
was an election. And some guy got elected who wasn’t even on the ballot.

It was a write-in vote and he won overwhelmingly. Well, the night of the change,
the winner came in the room and, and I know he's gonna strike this out. He had
on a pair of sandals with no socks, a pair of short shorts. Now he's a big guy.
And a T-shirt. Now here was the new president, and a cigar in his mouth. The
first thing I did was sit down with him and said "Now look, you're
representing," at the point Central Islip had maybe 3,000 employees, so I said
“and you gotta look like an executive and act like an executive, you know,
‘cause they expect a lot from you." And the man has amazed me because he's made
such a tremendous stride and I'm so proud of him that I think of him as a son.
Interview with Nick Palacino

I really am proud and every time I look at him, I just feel good. That's all,
and he knows it. Do I have to tell you who I'm talking about?"

FV: Yeah. Tell me.
NP: It's Danny Donohue. Danny is just one great guy.

FV: Well, he dresses better but he probably hasn't changed much in other
respects, has he?

NP: Right. Yeah, I always take him out to lunch. He never takes me out to lunch.
You know, at one time, when I first broke him in, we were together for so long
his wife thought we were keeping company, you know? But he has a wonderful
family and a wonderful wife and I've seen his family grow up. And he's proud of
them and they're doing a fine job. Well, anyway, enough praise. See, I don't
want anything. When I retired from CSEA I wanted to keep myself busy and active
because under the retirement, if you don't keep you're mind active, you fade
away. So my first outing was, I did some volunteer work as an ombudsman for the
State in the nursing homes but I just couldn't take the atmosphere there, it was
so, I just couldn't do it. So I attended a retiree meeting and that was another
fatal mistake I made. I attended a retiree meeting and the officers were so
happy to see me and they asked me to get involved and I said that I would like
to get involved in a limited way but first thing you know, I was on the
executive board and right after that, of course, the president stepped down and
so they asked me to be the president. So I've been serving as president of local
919 in Nassau County, the CSEA retiree unit. At this point we’ve built up our
membership. We have over 4200 members. So it keeps you hopping and it keeps you
answering the phone. But I wouldn’t trade my experience with CSEA for anything
in the world. I met some of the most wonderful people in the world, all types.
Well, like I said the last six months have been a little bit rough on me but
they carried me through and that's where it's been a help to me so I am very,
very grateful to CSEA.

FV: Let's go back to when you were a field rep. That's what they called it then,
right?

NP: That's a field rep.

FV: Yeah. I think that's a good solid...

NP: I thought so but somebody got the idea to make it more exclusive.
FV: (inaudible) or correctional institutions now too.

NP: And custodians, you know.

FV: But what are some of the grievances that you had to deal with back in those
days, when you started?

NP: Well, one of the grievances that I always enjoyed was, in Kings Park State
Hospital, it was located, was located, it's now been closed, in a very, very
beautiful area. The ocean is there and everything. These were isolated spots
thirty or forty years ago but now of course, it's very closely built.

But the area where the hospital was built, it's such a beautiful area and in
order to attract employees, they gave them some perks. One of the perks, I
Interview with Nick Palacino

always remember this, was a boat slip. They had a pier there and these people
were given a boat slip based on the fact that they were employees of the
hospital. Well, this was the sort of a perk that nobody wanted to give up
because it's almost impossible to get a slip out on the Island now. But so at
one time, the State said "We're going to close it down to you employees." We
filed a grievance and the grievance was that this was a benefit that was given
to the employees and we didn't want it removed. Well, we met and Danny and I
went to a lot of hearings in Albany and we finally got the State to withdraw and
the people were allowed to keep their slips. The only problem was they didn't
want publicity. They told us, you know, don't go around printing something that
you won a big case because a lot of people objected to the fact that some of
these employees had slips. And P.S., to this day, those people still have those
slips even though the hospital doesn't exist anymore. So we were happy about
that.

FV: No givebacks there.

NP: No giveback, no. Well, that was another indication that if you don't have
somebody fighting for you...

FV: That's the philosophy of a union.

NP: That's one that, I remember. There was quite a few. I had some very comical
ones. I once defended somebody in Central Islip who came to the hearing and he
was being accused of stealing in the kitchen. So I met with this gentleman early
in the morning and I said, you know, “What happened?” “Oh," he says, “it's very
simple.” Held been working there for years. “I finished my shift. I don’t drive
so I get picked up. So I was waiting f or my ride and I put my coat on the
bench, waiting for him. When he came I just jumped in the car and I picked up my
coat." What he didn't tell me was that there was a 20-pound frozen turkey in his
coat. So I says "You've gotta be kiddin'. You want me to go in and tell this to
the arbitrator, that you weren't aware of the fact that there was a... ?

He says "I swear, I didn't know!" That's another one. Another one I had was very
cute, also in Central Islip. The head of the security force came to me and says
"Nick, you know, we got a guy that’s been working here for 35 years. Here's the
problem. He came out the other day and it was very hot in July, but he had a hat
on and they were watching him for a while. So when they called him outside they
said. ‘John, we'd like to talk to you.' And they were talking to him and as they
were talking to him, the guy starts sweating and then butter came running down.
He had butter hidden in his hat. These are some of the things you can't forget.”

FV: How did he get away with that? Did you defend him successfully?

NP: Well, we negotiated. You know, he lost one day. I mean this was 40 years, I
mean he probably was doing that, I don’t know.

FV: ..that one incident. But getting back to the guy with the turkey. Did he eat
the evidence?

NP: (Laughter) That's right, you know I never did find out what he did with the
turkey.

FV: Did you get a leg or anything? (Laughter) But you defended him successfully,
right?
Interview with Nick Palacino

NP: Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. He didn't lose his job. We got him a little suspension.
Next time I got to a hearing, the fella's being brought on charges for sleeping,
he was drunk. He comes to the hearing, whew, smelled like it was...I said “Did
you have a drink this morning before...?” "Well, no, I was drinking last night.
I just had to brace myself up.” I said “We can't go in there." I mean, he IS
being accused of being drunk! We re-scheduled it. He comes back again, he's
drunk again. So these are some of the things you think about and you laugh.

Fv: But I get a feeling though that I know these people put up with a lot and,
of course, they didn't all burn out a lot sooner than they did working in the
psych center.

NP: That's right.

FV: But don't you think they were taking things because they felt like they were
owed a little extra here, a little extra there? Because of the way they were
treated? I mean, what was the story? What was life like then?

NP: Well, you don't steal a 20-pound turkey because, you know... But, milk, you
know, that's stuff they throw away if they can't use it. You know, I could see
it. It's like, you talk about that. I also serviced the Farmingdale SUNY
College, it used to be an agricultural. Now they had farms and they would have
chickens. That was another famous case of mine. That remained in my memory
anyway. The president at that time was a fella named Cipriani who was a
wonderful guy. They had a farm with chickens and they would get eggs. They had
plenty of eggs and they used to sell them to the staff at a discount price,
which was very nice. Now, the president one day went down to get some eggs and
there were no eggs. So, since he was under instructions from his wife to bring
home eggs, he went to town and he went to the local deli to buy eggs. When he
gets there, he finds stacks of Farmingdale eggs there. The guy that was taking
care of the chickens was selling the eggs. So, unfortunately, the guy who was in
charge of that happened to be the president of the local in SUNY Farmingdale.
But we got him out of that one too. So those are some of the memories that keep
coming back.

FV: Great. What about some of the, you got to know Danny, but who was
president when Danny was moving up when president was statewide? Did you ever
meet people like that?

NP: Oh, yeah, sure. Ted Wenzl. Wenzl was a strange fella, very nice but he...
I always remember him. I was walking a picket line in front of CSEA because the
staff, we went on strike.

FV: What, here?

NP: Not here, in Albany.

FV: In Albany, oh.

NP: Yeah. 33 Elk Street at that time.

Fv: I remember that.

NP: And it was on a hill like this. Well, believe it or not, we were walkin' a
picket line and we all wore out a pair of shoes because of the fact that you had
Interview with Nick Palacino

to go up...But anyway, we'd be out there early in the morning picketing and
Wenzl would drive up on a bike, he'd ride a bike from his house. But he was a
good president. He was a gung ho guy. I mean the guy that I admired and I
thought was Mr. CSEA himself is Joe Lockner. I think Joe Lockner was one of the
main reasons why CSEA became successful.

FV: What was Joe Lockner?

NP: He was the executive director but he ran the staff, he did a tremendous job.
I had a lot of respect for Mr. Lockner. I thought he was wonderful. Then he
finally retired.

FV: When was he active?
NP: Oh, well, when I joined in 1968, '69 and 1970, I think.
FV: You spent a lot of time in Albany.

NP: Well, back and forth, yes. Well, and another thing, beside being the
president of local 919, I'm the only retiree on a statewide PAC committee. In
other words, it's my responsibility to make sure that any bills the retirees are
looking to have pressed, that CSFA does it and they've been wonderful. I go up
to the meetings and they accept the fact that the retirees are part of our
organization.

FV: They have more experience.

NP: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, remember, they're gonna be retirees some day soon
too, you know? So that's the reason why. No, I find that keeping active that way
keeps me going. Like I said, especially in the past couple of months I've had a
little difficult. But I feel that they've helped me tremendously.

FV: You've got a great support group.
NP: Yes.

FV: Let's go back to the past for awhile. Lockner, what kinds of things did he
do that you... ?

NP: Joe Lockner was Mr. CSEA. I mean, he was great with staff. He knew how to
use staff and he utilized them. He was a strict guy-But he just was good.

I had another supervisor Jerry Rogers, who worked very closely with Joe Lockner.
That was the crew at that time. The gentleman who approached me asked if I would
be interested in working for them. But Joe Lockner, you know certain people
carry themselves in such a way that you always feel like they're good, you know?
You get a feel for them.

FV: I feel that way about Danny. I just think he cares about people.

NP: That's exactly the right way. He does care. One of the things I had to
convince him when he first took office in Central Islip was that you know, there
are people and there are people. There are people who are not on his side and
you gotta understand that ‘cause not everybody is like you. So you got to watch
out who your friends are at all times. I think he learned that lesson. When I
heard him speak at the last convention, AFSCME convention, and he stood right
Interview with Nick Palacino

beside MacAntee and Gephardt and Hillary and he came across just as good, if not
better than some of them. So it does give you a sense of pride that I
contributed just a little bit to the organization and to people like that.

FV: That's the philosophy of CSEA isn’t it? Everybody helps everybody. You were
in a good position to see that and do that.

NP: Right. Because I started from the beginning when we didn't have any rights
at all. I mean we had situations in the hospitals there. Those people were
working. If the director saw somebody walking across the lawn and he didn't like
them, held say “Fire him" and they'd fire him. So that was a terrible way to
work. And we didn't have health insurance and stuff like that, which is the A,
number one priority for retirees.

FV: Absolutely, All right, let me see. We went from...After Wenzl was president
then it was McGowan?

NP: McGowan, yes. McGowan was all right. He was around a long time as executive
vice president or something so he was good. He had some good ideas. I was one of
those people who wasn't too sure when we merged with the AFSCME because they
were our competitors all the time when we had elections. And we had some rough
elections. I remember one election we spent on the grounds of Kings Park. I
rented a trailer and we slept there that night, which was very good. The state
allowed us to bring the trailer in and we passed out our stuff. I mean the
other union had the same rights but I don't think they ever took advantage of
that. We had a big trailer there so we made a big splash. We did win the
election but then we lost the...But McGowan had some excellent ideas. But I
think the biggest thing that he did was associate us with AFSCME. I think that
was the smartest move because in the long run, we benefited from our association
with AFSCME.

FV: Well, now that you're partners, you don't fight each other too. Right?

NP: Yeah. The other way, we were just spending money and on elections they would
challenge, we would challenge and that entails a lot of legwork. You talk about
legwork. You see that, see, things come back? I remember we were recruiting part
time workers in Jones Beach and we actually went there on a Saturday morning and
walked across sand dunes because these part time workers were all over the
place. So we were tracking them down and giving them cards. And we recruited
quite a few of them. But that was another adventure into the sand dunes. You
know, sometimes you say to yourself “What am I doing here, you know?

FV: Wherever they are, that's where you've got to go.

NP: Yes. That was good, that was good. Yeah. When we went to Jones Beach, you
know there's a tollgate there. So the president, I don't want to name him now.
It wasn't Danny. The president of the Parks Department local, he went through
because he had an employee, he went around the tollgate. But he told us, "Oh no.
You guys got to go through the tollgate." And I thought “Jeez, that's strange."
We're talking about a quarter. But he was strict.

FV: You can name him.

NP: Lou. He's now in Florida and he's not doing too well. But we had some good
memories. Fond memories.
Interview with Nick Palacino

FV: Now, you were around when the Taylor Law came in.

NP: Yes, 1968.

FV: How did that come about? Were you part of any of that?

NP: Well, we were pushing for it. Most of the public employees were enthusiastic
about it and we had a lot of backing. And you've gotta make phone calls and
that's the one thing that people don't understand. You know, it's not done by
two or three people, it’s done by everyone collectively making phone calls. And
you need a lot. I talked to a lot of politicians and they keep tab of the phone
calls they get and they know that as seniors or retirees, we vote, you know what
I mean? And that's why we're so strong politically, because our people are the
big ones.

FV: OK. Let's see, we talked about Wenzl, McGowan. McDermott.
NP: Oh, Joe.
FV: Yeah. Tell me about Joe.

NP: Joe was, he was good. He was a quiet guy. He did everything very
conservatively. The staff respected him. He was kind of stern all the time
and he wasn't over-friendly. He never did any harm to us anyway.

FV: ALL right. What would you say that you're most proud of with CSEA?

NP: Well I feel that I was a little part in building the organization. I
contributed not only my time as a staff member but as an activist even after
retirement because it's very important. And the fact remains, in Nassau and
Suffolk County, we have over 9,000 members and I know that the Suffolk County
local has as many members as we have. People keep in touch with us and we
sometimes have to answer silly questions but you know that's part of the game.
You've got to take the good with the bad. If you enjoy doing it, I've always
enjoyed working with people and maybe that's good or maybe that's bad but it's
kept me going, believe me.

FV: ALL right. On the other side of the coin, what would you say is your biggest
disappointment with CSEA? If you have any.

NP: Biggest disappointment? One of the things that I, I don't want to get
political though. It's not a disappointment. I tried to explain we have I think,
65 or 200,000 retirees and the conception is "Oh, retiree. He's got a lot of
time. He can, you know, call them up. If you need a picket line you get..." You
can’t do that. You can't do that. These people, most of them have their own
problems. You know the old joke about the guy who was in the nursing home and

the girls are talking and they say "You know, Mary,s going out with..." Can I
tell a joke? It's clean. "Mary"s going out with Jack." "Yeah, is he a nice-
looking guy?" "Nah, he's not nice looking." "Has he got a lot of money?"
"Nah.”, “Is he a good lover?" "Nah. He's a terrible lover.” "Well, what the

heck does she see in him?” “He's the only one in the nursing home that drives at
night.” So, you see, you can't get through to these people. Only the other day I
got a call where the call was going to be at Levittown Hall at eight o'clock at
night. I called some people. You know, you can't get these people to go out

after eight o'clock. So we have our monthly meetings during the afternoon and we
Interview with Nick Palacino

get a good turnout. I don't know if it's because we give them bagels and coffee
but they turn out.

FV: So, how often do you do that?

NP: Once a month.

FV: Here?

NP: No. Levittown Hall. We go to a local place. Levittown Hall is in Hempstead.
FV: Same day of the month every month?

NP: Yes.

FV: What day?

NP: The fourth Tuesday of the month.

FV: The fourth Tuesday, huh? Maybe we'll show up.
NP: We got a meeting April 23d.

FV: I don't know if we can make it then but

NP: And the last meeting would be May 21st. If you call me I'll give you the
instructions.

FV: Who knows. We might.
Unknown speaker: I'll be in Las Vegas in May.
FV: Then there's always June.

NP: No. We don’t meet in June or July. See that's another thing, they don't meet
during the heat. June, July and August. Then we go back in September.

Unknown speaker: September we'll be there.
FV: September. OK.

NP: Oh, we used to meet in June. We used to have a picnic. But you know what, we
don't have able-bodied guys to handle the beer, the soda, the cooking. It's a
big problem. And one of my problems is trying to convince Albany that you can't
rely on the retirees because they have the impression that these people have a
lot of time and they're willing to donate it. Well, it's not SO. I found out
anyway. And all the other locals have the same problem I have.

FV: Well, maybe listening to this, we'll give it to them again. All right, what
do you see as the most important event in your involvement with CSEA? I mean
it's 50 years but there's a lot.

NP: Well, of course, the Taylor Law, to me was the biggest thing. Because as a
public employee, I had no health insurance, I had no retirement. I mean, it was
all Social Security. To me that was one of the biggest breaks that the public
Interview with Nick Palacino

employee got. And as time goes by, you find that it is one of the most important
things. They had no rights, they had no holidays. They had nothing. To me, that
was the highlight. Another terrific thing we found, I think it was in 1972 when
we had a State contract and we actually went on strike one weekend. We went on
strike. That was very interesting, to see who would get up and be counted and
that's where you know who's what and why. And I was very gratified because we
had a terrific following and they all turned out so the strike ended over the
weekend. But that was quite an experience.

FV: I'm sure there're pictures of that.

NP: Oh yeah. Picket line and we had a good turnout. And what's even better was
when we had hearings for each one of these employees that was brought up under
the Taylor Law. Well, we didn't lose one case. So we had a good attorney at that
time. Lester Lupkin was our regional attorney and we worked together and we
spent days at hearings, you know.

FV: Sure.

NP: But evidently our people said the right things. So we won all of our cases.
Nobody lost any money. Not that I advocate strikes because nobody wins in a
strike.

FV: No but sometimes.
NP: You have to stand up to be counted.

FV: All right. Let me ask you one question. I'll give you more time if you want
it. But let me ask you this. You have a lot of history with CSEA, you've learned
a lot with CSEA, you've fought a lot for the people you represent. What lessons
do you think CSEA's history holds for it's future?

NP: I think they're heading in the right direction. First of all, they’ve now
started to take in private employment. And to survive, that's what you have to
do. People like to see staff out in the field. And they've increased the staff
to the point where at least they can represent the people. Because people are
funny. They want attention all the time. I mean, as a retiree, we have very
little benefits coming to us. But the calls that you get, you know, sometimes
they pay 12 dollars yearly dues and they expect health insurance, they expect,
they expect dental insurance. You know, so you gotta explain it to them and if
you don't have the patience...But I think CSEA is heading in the right
direction. In order to survive, they're gonna have to expand and that's what
they're doing. And the future is the big thing and unions will be around a long
time.

FV: Good. I’m glad to hear that. Glad you think so. Let's talk about some of the
other people I talked to today. You may have memories of Rita. Rita Wallace?

NP: Rita Wallace?
FV: Yeah. What do you remember about Rita?

NP: Rita's a good person. She's a hard worker. She has a funny way of getting
across to some of the people as far as I'm concerned. Is this being recorded?
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Interview with Nick Palacino

FV: What do you mean?

NP: She's rough. She's a rough person.
FV: Yeah? She gets what she wants?
NP: Not all the time.

FV: Does anybody ever?

NP: I mean there's a way of getting something, you know what I mean? And she
used to rub too many people the wrong way.

FV: So, were you at some of these battles?

NP: Uh, no thank goodness, I wasn't involved with Rita's local. But, you know,
from what I heard, she uh...

FV: Yeah, yeah. All right. What about some of the recent people they elected?
Like Nick, Nick LaMort.

NP: Nick LaMort is one of the best things that happened to this region as far as
I'm concerned. I've seen what he does, his involvement. I've been to conventions
with him and he gets involved. He treats the retiree locals like they're part of
the organization so he's respected by a lot of people. I was fortunate enough at
the last Washington meeting with AFSCME to visit numerous officials and
congressmen and they were all on a first-name basis, which is something good.

He has got a good rapport whether it's Democrats or Republicans. So I think that
he's doing a tremendous job so I hope he continues. But sometimes I tell him
“You know, you're pushing yourself too thin, not in weight, in time.” His weight
he's got to watch out just like Danny.

FV: But you have respect for people who represent CSEA. With the politicians and
different people. Don't you think?

NP: Oh, you definitely feel that. Oh sure. Oh, I really think SO. I could walk
down the street any time and one of the proudest things I have is that I can
walk into any State facility and meet people and they acknowledge me and they
come over to me and to me that is the greatest thing. I've had that happen to me
a number of times. We were in Hawaii at the convention and I'm walking with my
wife and people came over and thanked me for past services as a field rep and
told my wife some very nice things that I was surprised. They appreciate the
fact that you're a human being and you respect them. This is what I tried to
teach my sons.

FV: Does it make a difference?

NP: It makes a big difference in your life, believe me. FV: And you make a
difference in people's lives.

NP: Well, I hope so. I hope it's a plus anyway. You know, you don't have much
time left and when you don't, everything is important to you, everything.

FV: Well, you know, I've asked you all the questions I can think of. You got
anything else you want to tell us before we uh... ?
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Interview with Nick Palacino

NP: I'll probably think of a lot of things.

FV: Then we'll come back. NP: Nahh!

FV: No, seriously, we'll come back in another month or two or maybe September
and we'll do this again. We try to stimulate a lot of memories. So if you think
of things, write down a little note and keep a list and we' 11 come back.

But if there's anything now you want to say...

NP: No. I really appreciate the opportunity to express myself and to express my
gratitude for CSEA because they changed my life. My family's life too cause I
sent two boys through college; I've got to admit that. But there were times when
things were bad but, hey you gotta take the good with the bad.

FV: Yeah. Well, we really appreciate it. And I'm honored that you had the time
to talk to us. I really am.

NP: I appreciate the fact that you gave me the opportunity.
FV: Thank you very much.
NP: You think I'll ever see that?

FV: Yeah, I think you will.