CSEA HISTORY PROJECT
JOSEPH CONWAY INTERVIEW
4/13/05
INTERVIEWER: Can we start just --
tell us your full name and spell -- spell the
name for us --
MR. CONWAY: I sure will. My --
INTERVIEWER: -- and then tell us --
MR. CONWAY: Okay.
INTERVIEWER: -- what your work
history was --
MR. CONWAY: Okay. I sure will.
INTERVIEWER: -- with CSEA.
MR. CONWAY: I sure will. My name is
Joseph Conway, C-o-n-w-a-y. I served as both a
union representative for the Workers' Comp
Board, I was there about 18 years. I was a
clerk there --
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MR. CONWAY: -- served as a union
representative, delegate to the conventions, and
then I ran for president and won, served as a
one-term president. Then I went to work full
time for -- in those days they had an agreement
with the State for what they called an employee
monitoring specialist which meant at that --
under that contract each employee was evaluated
and if you didn't get a good evaluation that
meant you didn't get your increment or raise,
period, but you could appeal, and I served on --
I represented the employee. The State had their
people. I read the union -- I represented the
union at their -- at their level.
That was interesting, believe me. I
toured the whole state from every -- every big
prison to you name it, and I found out which
department was good to people, which one wasn't.
Then one time Feathers invited me
to -- to lunch, which I felt -- I knew him from
various, you know, meetings at -- gee. In
fact, I went to college with one of the
employees.
So, anyway, I went down. He said --
you know, he said, now, I'd like you to head the
-- our political action program. I said I don't
know dog about politics. You may want somebody
-- he said if it's not you, you tell me who to
get. You're articulate, every...you know
everybody. He said I want you, so that's how I
became political action chair.
Before that Ted Wenzel appointed me as
a full-time legal chairman. For eight years I
served as legal chairman, but that was a, you
know, you worked for your regular job and that
was an extra duty. So this political action
chairman meant you're full-time CSEA. They even
had a buy-back arrangement.
What they'd -- the Union would do,
every year at the end of the year, they would
pay for my wages, pay for my hospitalization,
pension, and that was -- that happened for years
and years. That's what I did.
Then as political action chairman we
-- we notified employees, we thought it was
pretty important to know if you're inhaling a
toxic substance. Before that they just -- let's
say you're a printer. They wouldn't tell ya
that what you're inhaling was dangerous, might
be -- eventually get to your skin, cause a
problem. We changed the OSHA law; you now have
to write on the label, they have to notify
employees. If they're inhaling anything
dangerous, they have to be told. That's one
thing we got.
We also modified the Taylor Law in
different ways. One thing we did is you no
longer had to -- let me see. Oh. I think the
most important thing, as far as I'm concerned,
did you -- you probably heard of the (inaudible)
extension?
INTERVIEWER: Absolutely.
MR. CONWAY: Before that, what they
would do is at the end of the contract every --
all your benefits would stop. Now they go on
till the new one is signed and voted on, which
is great because what -- what the advantage to
the State would be, you'd lose your medical,
you'd lose your pension, you'd lose everything
until the new contract. If none isn't signed,
lots a luck. Now, at least, it continues.
And the teachers got it, too, which
is, I thought, pretty damn good, myself.
INTERVIEWER: So go back for a minute.
We were --
MR. CONWAY: Sure.
INTERVIEWER: You were telling me
earlier that you actually worked under five
different --
MR. CONWAY: Oh, yeah. Five
different --
INTERVIEWER: -- CSEA --
MR. CONWAY: Oh, yeah. Joe Feeley,
Ten Wenzel and Bill McGowan, Joe McDermott and,
of course, I retired under Danny -- President
Danny Donohue. Now, they were all good and they
really accomplished a hell of a lot, but we
became from the Association to a real Union.
The first time we endorsed Cuomo as
the first Governor we ever officially endorsed,
we worked like hell to get him elected and he
said he wouldn't have been elected unless CSEA
-- unless CSEA helped, which we did.
INTERVIEWER: We'll come back to that
campaign. Tell me first about Joe Feeley. We
haven't heard a lot about him.
MR. CONWAY: Well, you know, it's
funny, but he was very quiet, rather quiet. The
Union, it wasn't really a union. It was more of
an Association. In fact, without the Taylor
Law, really all they had to do was listen. They
didn't really have to do anything. But he was a
nice guy, really nice. He was a genial
Irishman, very nice. I don't think he ever
alienated -- everyone who knew him liked him.
But he was -- as I said, there was more of an
Association then, you know?
They -- in fact, the Union didn't have
that many members then either. Now they have
all -- now, of course, they have AG shops, so
instead of just paying dues they may (inaudible)
which they do.
As I used to tell people, we used to
have these tables set up in different prisons or
mental hygiene places or public places. I'd
say, well, if you look at that draw card and
figure out what the CSEA negotiates, you'd know
they make many times over what you pay in dues.
You can't beat it. It's the best deal you're
ever gonna have in your life.
INTERVIEWER: So from Feeley then you
went to --
MR. CONWAY: Ted Wenzel.
INTERVIEWER: Obviously a (inaudible)
type of individual.
MR. CONWAY: Oh, yeah. He had me
right up his goddamn -- I'll never forget this.
Up for his election against Bill McGowan, he
said would you please go up there and represent
me? I said -- you know what he wanted me to do,
make sure that he had an honest count, which I
did. He lost by very few votes. But ever since
then, they counted ‘em and counted ‘em and -- he
sued and lost.
Then, of course, I figured I'm -- my
goose is cooked. Back to the Comp Board. All
of a sudden I get a call: This is Bill McGowan.
We'd like you to be full-time CSEA. I said, I'm
sorry, Bill, but it's too political for me.
Then he said, well, I'll have something else.
Maybe a -- some type of committee assignment, so
then okay.
The next thing I know Feathers invited
me to lunch. That's when he asked me if I'd
head the political action program. So at that
time they had -- you wouldn't believe this.
Beautiful office in the Twin Towers building,
right on top. Oh, you gotta -- it even had a
sauna. I couldn't believe. It was Rosenbloom,
the owner of Twin Towers? He had that all set
up. We rented that for about a year, maybe two
at the most. Then we moved it in State Street.
We were there for about two years at least.
Then back -- they finally made room at
headquarters, in the third floor of
headquarters, which I -- second floor, I think,
which we liked, which we really enjoyed.
But as political action chair, we --
as I said, we might have had the Taylor Law, we
kept the canal open. They tried to close it
Many times. We lobbied to have that open. We
also -- also we kept a lot of buildings. Mental
Hygiene, they wanted to close, make apartments
out of it. Mental Hygiene, we kept that for
years and years. And they --
INTERVIEWER: You still remember when
you were political action chair, you were also
involved in helping in -- in helping to stop the
IRS from taxing --
MR. CONWAY: Oh, yeah, they tried --
INTERVIEWER: -- and that was a
very --
MR. CONWAY: Oh, boy, I guess so.
INTERVIEWER: -- famous campaign --
MR. CONWAY: And we were nervous, too.
We -- although some of ‘em we were successful,
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some we were not. For instance, we -- the more
I see the papers, the more I think -- I know
damn well we were right. We tried like hell to
get a national health insurance goin' and
unfortunately we weren't able to do that, but
yet you should see where -- where's the health
insurance gone? Up and up and up. Medical care
is unreal. People are -- it's unreal how they
have to suffer now. Now I know damn well we
were right.
INTERVIEWER: Do you remember with
that -- that IRS when you stopped them, do you
remember going down to Washington --
MR. CONWAY: Oh, yeah.
INTERVIEWER: -- meeting with Senator
Moynihan?
MR. CONWAY: Oh, yeah. He was
brilliant, but I had one thing. I found out he
was a real canal fan so we had a local president
of the canal get a lantern that was in the
canal. You know how they had those buoys
with -- and we gave it to him and he loved it.
He had it in his farm for years.
But, boy --
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INTERVIEWER: Do you need a break
or --
MR. CONWAY: No, that's okay.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me a little bit
about your role as chair of the political
action --
MR. CONWAY: Well, you know --
INTERVIEWER: -- aside from the
legislation itself, what did you do to try --
MR. CONWAY: Well --
INTERVIEWER: -- and get the members
more aware and --
MR. CONWAY: Well, let me tell ya.
Luckily I worked hand in hand with Cheryl
Shell -- not Cheryl Shell any more, Rosenzweig.
INTERVIEWER: Sure.
MR. CONWAY: We were -- toured the
state. I would tell members what legislation
was on the -- on the docket, which ones we could
pass, how we needed their help, and they joined
the people which helped us, federal elections,
and got ‘em involved, you know?
Find out you not only talk but you
also listen, which was very important, I
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thought. Also gave a report at conventions and
we had something like maybe 13 people on the
committee from all over the state, which was
good. Told me what the hell the issues were,
you know, in different parts of the state, which
was good too.
And we started to hold our meetings in
different locations. One in Buffalo, one in
Syracuse, one in Long Island, one in New York
and so forth.
Oh, by the way, George (inaudible)
called me the other day. I hadn't heard from
him since I retired. I hadn't heard from him.
We also got OSHA laws modified, as I
mentioned before. We fought to keep the Barge
Canal, which I mentioned. We fought many large
Mental Hygiene places to keep open, so it seemed
like the minute you elect a governor, what do
they want to do? How do they want to save
money? By privatizing which, naturally, we're
against. We don't want to lose one member if we
can help it. There's nothing more important as
our membership, period.
We also got involved in federal and
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state elections. We -- we elected a Governor.
We worked, as I mentioned before, hard to elect
Governor Cuomo twice, then three times. I
remember Lou McDermott had all kinds of money,
but very close election.
Then -- I forget the guy's name,
Pierre somebody -- ran against us. He was a
real loser. He hasn't run since for nothing.
Then we endorsed -- I'll never forget it. We
had Jimmy Carter come to our convention, first
time a President ever came. I'll never forget
it. He -- he addressed us and we met Jodie
Powell, his -- one of the people with him.
George Stephanopalus, and then, I'll never
forget, he flew back on Air Force One, it was at
the Buffalo Airport, so Gerald McEntee, the
national president, flew back with him. What a
thrill.
I remember going to the airport and he
was on the plane with Gerald McEntee. I see
this door open and all these people coming in,
sitting in this car. (Inaudible). People just
wanted to sit where he sat. I couldn't believe
it. I said, boy, what the hell next.
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Then, as I said, we --
INTERVIEWER: What -- what do you
remember about Carter's speech? I mean do you
remember --
MR. CONWAY: No, I really don't
remember.
INTERVIEWER: -- delegates --
MR. CONWAY: I remember one thing I'll
never forget as long as I live. It was, I think
-- I think it was his birthday when he spoke and
Bill McGowan as president, naturally, was
introducing him, so he got nervous and mentioned
"Happy Birthday." He mentioned the wrong
President. I'll never forget. He really
goofed. The one time he really goofed. I
forget which President he mentioned but it
wasn't Carter.
INTERVIEWER: What do you remember
about the Cuomo -- the first campaign when we --
when we helped to get Cuomo to win the primary?
MR. CONWAY: Oh, I'll tell ya --
INTERVIEWER: (Inaudible.)
MR. CONWAY: Oh, yeah. We worked our
tail off. We got a plane, we chartered a plane,
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went all over the state. Boy, I'll never
forget. One time I was in Buffalo and this
convertible with a big bull horn, Jobs and
Justice. Jobs and Justice. Vote for Cuomo.
All through the university there. We -- and
also we staffed different offices with CSEA
help. Unreal. We really worked our tail off
for him.
INTERVIEWER: And then after he was
elected --
MR. CONWAY: He --
INTERVIEWER: -- the first thing he
did --
MR. CONWAY: He is the first one --
INTERVIEWER: -- was lay off the
employees.
MR. CONWAY: Yeah. But he did come
back to our building, shook hands and thanked
us. Then laid off the people, then tried to
privatize. It's un...after a while, you don't
respect many politicians. They want your vote.
As soon as they're in, they want to save money.
You're gone. That's the way they are. You
know, it burns me up, but it's so true.
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INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MR. CONWAY: But I'll tell you one
thing. We have a real good organization. It's
like a -- CSEA is like a family. You know, the
foundation, it grows and grows and grows. It's
great. I love it. And they're not like other
unions. They're not crooked, they're not
stealing. You know, they're just -- really,
really are good, I think.
Naturally, over half my life in
(inaudible). I have to say I do like them.
INTERVIEWER: Obviously, you saw --
you saw the change in CSEA over the time that
you were --
MR. CONWAY: From the time -- from the
time, as I said, I saw the change from an
Association to a real Union, which I can't speak
more of. They were great, absolutely great.
They -- they started to represent the employees.
As I say, they improved their medical, they
improved -- you tell me. My wife belonged to
the (inaudible). Do you think they have dental
and drug cards? Still don't have it. We had it
years ago. They never had it. McGowan got that
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enacted. That's just one benefit. But, no, a
whole bunch of ‘em.
INTERVIEWER: What do you remember
about the contract fights, about the --
MR. CONWAY: Well, what I remember,
one -- one time, I'll never forget, the whole
Department of Mental Hygiene, the contract ended
on Friday. They walked off Saturday. The State
settled on Sunday. That I'll never forget.
Here we won our -- couldn't believe that, but it
happened. The one time only that -- I even --
at that time I was a local president. I even
rented a desk and an office. I thought for sure
there was gonna be picket lines galore. We
never used it. One day, came and got it, that
was it. Even had a phone line.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me about Hugh Carey
and his relationship with CSEA.
MR. CONWAY: Well, you know, he could
be -- he could be nice but he's what I call the
Dark Irishman. He could be like he never even
knew ya, could look right past ya, but if he
liked ya, you knew it. He would do anything for
you then. Very loyal but, as I said, he also
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tried to privatize, which burned me up. But he
was okay.
He came up to me, I'll never forget --
I forget what Senator in Washington I was
lobbying, but he was there waitin' in line too.
He came up and he said, "Oh, I'm very sorry to
hear about Bill's death." He was very sincere.
He was in his eighties then, I think, either
seventies or eighties.
And then one time, I'll never forget,
in one of his inaugurations they had it at the
Empire State Plaza? He come up and he shook my
hand. My daughter was with me and, I'll tell
ya, she -- she stood about ten feet -- she said,
Dad, I can't believe (inaudible). Actually,
well, that's him. He was very nice.
INTERVIEWER: Now he and McGowan got
along.
MR. CONWAY: Oh, he liked Bill. Yeah,
he really did.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MR. CONWAY: He sure did.
INTERVIEWER: Do you remember much
about the relationship between Cuomo and
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McGowan?
MR. CONWAY: Oh, that -- that was
pretty good too. He, as I said, the only thing
was Cuomo definitely tried to privatize and
McGowan, of course, couldn't go along with that,
so there was a little bad feeling. Plus, the
contract, you know, you're on one side, he's on
the other, but nobody -- as I tried to tell
people, nobody is 100 percent for ya.
You have to take a look at the whole
record and if their record, some -- most of it
is for you, then you vote for him. If they're
all against you, then vote against him. That's
all, but he was pretty good.
INTERVIEWER: Why do you think CSEA
was able to succeed for close to a hundred years
now?
MR. CONWAY: I'll tell you why, what I
think. One, they have real good employees.
They really have a feeling for their members.
That's number one.
Number two, they keep up with
technology. I don't care whether it's a -- a
photo machine or a computer, they get -- they go
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out and get it.
And three, they're not cheap. If you
work for CSEA it's top dog or none, period. And
-- plus, they have a real good research
department. They know what they're talkin'
about. They're certainly the State's equal if
not above it. That's what I think, and they
continually grow, which I think is important. I
really do.
INTERVIEWER: I mean you talked about
a whole bunch of different things that were
accomplished while you were --
MR. CONWAY: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: -- with -- doing the
political action work.
MR. CONWAY: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: What are you most proud
of, of your career in CSEA?
MR. CONWAY: Well, I'm really -- I'm
really proud of the (inaudible) shop, one thing.
I'm proud of that. I'm also proud of the fact
that your probation was extended during my term.
It used to be -- they used to look at -- if they
didn't like ya, you were gone. They'd put in
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there -- for instance, if your wife got
pregnant, all they could do is fire her. Now
they have to at least they give her time off, a
year or two to come back. They can't fire ‘em
any more. That's one good thing.
As I said, their drug plan is unreal.
Eye glasses. I can't believe -- you tell me
what other union gives you that.
INTERVIEWER: True.
MR. CONWAY: Yeah?
INTERVIEWER: Joe, CSEA certainly has
had its share of memorable characters. Can you
remember some of the characters?
MR. CONWAY: Well, they had Pat
Bisholey (phonetic), which was a nice guy. They
had -- beside Bill they had Irene Carr. They
had Joe McDermott. They had Jack Gallagher as
treasurer. They had, who else, all kinds of
real weird -- they had George Bonkire (phonetic)
who's still a president. I'm probably not
pronouncing his name right, but he's a nice guy
in New York City. They had out on the Island,
of course, Danny Donohue came from Long Island.
He used to be --
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INTERVIEWER: What do you remember
about Danny particularly in --
MR. CONWAY: He used to be a region
president on Long Island. I remember him quite
well. Yeah. He came up from the -- he used to
be, believe it or not, a truck driver in Mental
Hygiene. That's how he started out. He really
-- he's another one came up from the bottom to
the top. He's a real, real good person, plus
he's very knowledgeable and very union oriented,
of course, with his position. Yeah, he is
definitely. He's very honest and very fair too.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. Can I just stop
here?
INTERVIEWER: Sure.
INTERVIEWER: I mean there's a lot of
noise.
INTERVIEWER: So tell me about Irene
Carr.
MR. CONWAY: Well, you know, she used
to be Ted Wenzel's secretary, but she stayed on
for years and years. She was, you know, she was
very interested in women's affairs, very able,
competent. It's a shame. Of course, she passed
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away, I think either last year or the year
before, yeah, but she was a nice person.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m.
MR. CONWAY: I knew her well.
INTERVIEWER: And you mentioned Jack
Gallagher. I think people have talked about
him.
MR. CONWAY: Oh, gee.
INTERVIEWER: I think he was a
treasurer, wasn't he?
MR. CONWAY: He was for years. He was
our treasurer. He was another nice -- he
also -- in World War II what he was, he was a
head of a bomb disposal squad. Can you imagine
the nerve he had to disassemble bombs? That's
what his job was.
But he was a very good treasurer and
he presided over for years and years. As I
said, we -- you know, the dues, they don't go
down. They always go up, like everything else;
cost of living, phone, building, taxes and so
forth. But he's a very nice competent person.
INTERVIEWER: How about Tom McDonough?
MR. CONWAY: Oh, Tommy. You know,
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he -- it's funny, but he passed away -- in the
middle of a snowstorm he went out to brush off
the car and dropped dead. But he was very, very
-- he was the first political action chairman.
He was very nice. Knew him, as I said, I knew
him well, but he always wanted to be president
but, you know, it just never happened. But he
was very, very capable. He came from Motor
Vehicle, as his career. Worked there. I forget
what grade he was but, anyway, that's where he
came from, but he was very competent, very nice.
Knew him well.
INTERVIEWER: Irving Flamingbaum?
MR. CONWAY: Oh, Irv was from Long
Island. He was a -- he was a union character.
Very, very knew what he wanted, knew how to get
it, very vocal, but he was pretty decent too.
He's very -- as I said, very alive. Put it that
way. Very vo...as I said, very vocal and he
knew what he wanted, knew how to get it, and he
got it most of the time.
INTERVIEWER: Bob Lattimer.
MR. CONWAY: Well, he ran -- he was
very popular in -- in his own region, but he
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tried for president a couple of times. Never
won, but he was -- he was never satisfied with
the status quo. Always wanted something else.
Never happy. Our contract, never any good. He
-- he was -- he dealt more in negatives than
positives, which is one of the few presidents
that was that way. That's what I thought of
him.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m. And Joe
McDermott?
MR. CONWAY: Oh, he was o...he was
from the Albany area, another one from Motor
Vehicle, but he was -- I'm sorry, DOT. He was
-- he was very capable. He was also involved
with the international union. I think he was a
vice president, but he was a decent guy. Very
capable. Very honest. And it's just a shame he
retired, but he earned it. No doubt about it.
INTERVIEWER: M-m h-m-m. What are
some of the best things that happened to you
with CSEA if you remember?
MR. CONWAY: Well, let me think.
Well, the best thing is I think, really, when we
got involved with AFSCME. We became national
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rather than just state. We got involved in
presidential elections, governors' elections,
state -- state and federal Senate and Assembly
and Congress which we never were before.
We also got a little influence on
labor -- federal laws, labor laws. The feds --
first the State said we weren't -- we didn't
come under federal OSHA laws. We fought in the
courts and the courts decided we did, so they
had to now abide by federal and State law, which
was good. Only fair.
Before that the State were like
second-class employees. They're not now.
INTERVIEWER: No question.
MR. CONWAY: You said it.
INTERVIEWER: I think that will
actually do us pretty well.
MR. CONWAY: Okay. Good.
INTERVIEWER: Yep.
MR. CONWAY: Very good.
INTERVIEWER: That was great, Joe.
Wonderful. We really appreciate your time.
MR. CONWAY: That's quite all right.
I'm glad you stopped by.
you know.
Conway. )
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INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
MR. CONWAY: I'm just sorry for the --
(Conclusion of interview of Joe
