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this is the Media Project, a weekly discussion about issues confronting the media.
I'll tell you, Christ, reliably off the record, about some charming people I have known.
Before I meet politicians and grafters by the score, killers play and fancy,
it's really quite a bar, oh, and these Superman meets up to interesting people.
A wallow in corruption, crime and gore, tingling, wing, city, disc,
full press, full press, extra extra read all about it, it's a mess meets the test,
only Superman meets up to interesting people. It's wonderful, the rep present the press.
Well, in the Media Project we have something important to announce this week,
that something big happened in Boston since our last show, but before we announce that,
Irofus Bell is here, the publisher. Hello, the investigative journalist Rosemary Armeo. Hello.
And I'm Rex Smith, editor of the Times Union, and we're here without the professor, Dr.
Shartak is off somewhere in California, and usually it's you Rosemary who's off some of us in the world.
Yes. Just back from Brazil. Brazil, yes, there was a journalism conference there,
and then a little side trip. Just a little side trip. I'm just back from Port U, and so I just
almost the same. The nice town at the hilltop, it looks like very nice, but not quite the same as
Brazil. They carnavali in Port U and does not quite match. Yeah, and I'm in from Renssela County,
where you know, we always talk with the girl from Troy, is it the girl from the anime?
Anyway, so what big happened in Boston, folks? Yes, it's true. The purchase of the Boston
Globe was official. John Henry has completed his purchase of the Boston Globe, Boston.com,
the Worcester Telegram and Gazette and the Telegram's website. How about that? Actually, the guy.
Yeah, that's a pretty good week. He did. He also owns that. What does that ball club have?
Yeah, but did you ever see any owner of any sports team seem less excited than this guy last night?
As we speak on the victory stand, it was just a wet fish. I don't know, but this means for the
Globe. Well, it's because he's more excited about the Globe, which is an understated kind of a
publication anyway, you know, but he's saying all the right things, you know, about being devoted to
the journalism of the community and that kind of stuff. So time will tell. And I note that the
folks in Worcester are unhappy that he hasn't made much of the fact that he owns that paper as well.
So we will have to, we'll have to keep our eyes on how that develops. Furthermore, although we
haven't talked about this, you know, usually we, we huddle just a little bit before the, we,
we start to do this show to talk about things. I note that there apparently is some interest
we're hearing on the part of the sage of Omaha investing in some of the Tribune papers.
That is Warren Buffett, you know, has been on a buying spree. And now he's talking about perhaps
being interested in Alan Towne and Sivanya, the Hartford current and one of the papers in Virginia
that he seems to like the smaller papers, although Hartford is not a small paper, but it's not
the Chicago Tribune at the other times. Yeah, the papers that still have some resilience where you
can still drop on, I think, community advertising support. And both John Henry and Warren Buffett
don't seem to have a problem fighting with any co-owners is because they don't have any co-owners,
but you saw what was going on in Philadelphia right now, which is just a mess.
Right. Yes, we, we talked about that because Rosemary used to work for Bill Marimo.
All right. He is the editor in question who was fired by his publisher and has basically said,
I will be back. He's sort of been fired. Sort of fired. Yeah. They can't decide, the owners can't
decide what they want to do. And he definitely, Marimo definitely doesn't want to do some of the
things they want to do. His view has been always and always will be quality journalism will,
will ensure the franchise. But can you imagine it happens to be a newspaper here, but can you
imagine any business with, and you're an employee or you're a customer and you witness from the
outside that the ownership of this company, a venerable company, it's fighting with each other.
And you just throw up your hands and say, how can they be concentrating on their mission when
they're busy fighting with each other? It's a great set. It's interesting, this trend that we're
seeing of rich men, kind of a kind of classic man buying big newspapers or middle-sized newspapers.
We have it in Washington Post now in the Boston Globe and boy, there have been worst
ownership patterns in this. That's absolutely right. And it is history repeating itself. Since this
is how newspapers often got their start, people who wanted to have an impact in their communities.
And it used to be considered sort of the beautiful circle that investment of money would lead to
the rise of the power of the newspaper, which would lead to better journalism, which would in turn
lead people to invest in it more, more readership leads to more power. And so it was a nice little
unit. It was a model. Yeah. A long time.
Then folks borrowed and got greedy and decided that they would over extend their debt.
I always I always blamed USA Today for this whole idea that newspapers had to produce huge
profits all the time, even in times when the economy was not going to have been cyclical before
them, but he's Alan Neuwreff, the owner then, who started USA Today a long time going to have
to official. But the fact is, newspapers always did produce huge profits. And that's what they did.
But if you'll recall, I mean, his idea was it's going to be this profit this year and next year
it will rise to this amount. And that was the part that. And of course, for the first, I don't know
how many number of years after its birth, they'd lost a lot of money. It was bleeding,
Gennett, and the rest of Gennett was lifting the boat for USA. I believe USA did reach a point
where it started making a profit. I don't know where it is now in light of what's going on in the
industry in general. That's a good question. That set up that whole model, though, that newspaper
should respond to the rules of Wall Street, and it never existed before. By the way, I don't know
that we discussed it here and I didn't bring it and I shouldn't even bring it up because I can't
speak to it in detail. But we're accustomed to people speaking right out full knowledge,
particularly sitting in this chair. But New York magazine within the last couple of weeks had a
story about Murdoch and what's going on at the New York Post. And I commend it to certainly to
you guys, but to anybody who's interested in that particular property and what's going on with
them and their greater company and the business and the gist of it seemed to be that the New York Post,
which has lost money for since Murdoch has owned it, a considerable amount of money. It now,
some believe, is on the precipice of going out of business because the way they're structured
now at News Corp, it is more vulnerable. And of course Murdoch is in his 80s and is not going to go on
forever. But I advise people interested in this sort of stuff to look at. New York magazine.
You have your homework assigned. Yes. Excellent. Oh, one more thing on the business side of
journalism before we move on and that has to do with the aging of the readership for print products,
as well as for most of the broadcast journalism. Two facts in that regard. PBS NewsHour has lost 48
percent of its audience in the last eight years. Eight years ago, the show had 2.5 million
viewers a night. Now it's down to almost half that number. And of course, a lot of that is simply
because of the aging of the public broadcasting, the aging of the news consumer in general,
which does not give us great hope for the future. Notwithstanding that, there's a new magazine out
on the news stands now for people in the demographic that might refer to some of us here. Women over age 50,
there's a new magazine called... I don't know what you're talking about. It's called Closer or
is it called Closer? I don't know. It depends on what you're looking for here, pitching or intimacy.
And so this is a new magazine that has as its first cover girl, get this not Kim Kardashian or
Kim West, whatever her name is, but Rota. Valerie Harper is there. She's 74 years old. Not exactly
somebody who you would put on the cover of a magazine if you're aiming for the 20-somethings that a
lot of advertising buyers go for. What do we do with the aging of information consumers? Is this a
smart idea or not? Well, there's a niche market. I mean, I don't know what the business model is. I
would think that on the one hand, there is room for a publication and there would be interest in a
publication like this because there is this euthanization of America and there's precious little for
people of our generation to read. Euthanization. Is that a real word? Well, I don't hope it gets
this very close to euthanation. Not very. Well, that too. It would be damaging. You know, whether it's
a magazine like this or the multiplicity of websites that are developing, we may talk later about
CBS is getting into an internet venture. There is just so much out there right now and it's very
exciting, but it's also very troubling, particularly those of us who are trying to make a living in this
business because the pie is just being split so much. You wonder how anybody is making any money.
By the way, I wonder on that McNeil air. Well, that's what it's going to bring up McNeil air on
the the news hour. They are no longer on the program and I wonder how much of the loss of
viewership is has to do with that. And I also wonder if we start from the premise that
PBS news hour is one of the refuges of hard news and studied and investigative news that it can't
make it. It's losing viewers that what does that say about the appetite of consumers for real
news that they really do want this cut and paste kind of news that's on the other cable channels.
And that's disappointing. I have never understood why older readers, older viewers were not
cornered. They have as much money and less time to spend it in so they'd be more likely to part
with it. So I've never understood the business model's emphasis on the on that younger group. Why
not go after them? This makes sense to me from a business sense because we're still the baby
boomers. That's who this magazine and others like it are aimed at. There's a lot of us and I will
read this. Although I have to say I'm totally interesting Kim Kardashian. I hope they put her on to.
Is that right? Are you really? Yeah I find that whole thing. I mean the whole phenomena of
the Kardashians is an interesting business and social phenomena. I do not put it down. I think
it's pretty funny. Well there are plenty of places where you can find that information. I think
the notion of closer or closer is yeah I get a little a little. Although the mother Kardashian,
the Kardashian mother certainly in this age demographics. Yeah you have to say what did she do?
Really? How did this happen? You know maybe the issue with the news hour is not that it's serious
news and that that's what's turning people off. Maybe it is that the presentation is such that
it doesn't attract people. Maybe there's a way to attract people to serious news without being
boring. Is the show boring these days? I just think it's it's straightforward and it's serious
and it's for serious people and it presents points of view and it gives you news and for people who
are interested in that and who are willing to sit through it without having the clicker right in
our hand. It's a very good news program and I think the statistics would suggest that more and
more people are not willing to put up with that kind of approach and I think that what's particularly
interesting about that is you hear these cries from people be moaning the lack of this approach
and yet here's a program that does it and it's losing viewership by 50%. I think there's just
lack of interest in news and we have to face up to that. I spoke to a group yesterday about a
hundred high school kids and asked some questions like do you get your news from paper online you know
went through a Facebook Twitter and there were spattering of hands at each choice and yet the vast
majority never raised their hand and that means they're not getting news and they're not missing that.
Frank says no who used to be on CNN and now is a professor of some sort at I believe George
Washington University in Washington and he has been back on CNN occasionally filling in as the
host of their media program on Sunday morning when Howard Kurtz left to go to Fox and he did a piece
that he taped in his classroom and he had eight or 10 of his students at the table and he basically
asked the and these are students who are interested in the media who are going to college and specializing
in the media and he went around the room and asked them where they get their news and to a man and
woman they said I go to my cell phone and I look at the mobile and that's the here the first thing
I do is go to here here here here now the good news for a newspaper companies is that several of them
cited going to newspaper sites but by and large these are people who you would think if any young
people would buy newspapers this would be them they don't suggest that we really need to focus on
distribution via social media which I think your company is very big on this and we're trying
to do this better also I think one of the things that is problematic for a program like the
news hour and certainly affects newspapers is just the consumption habits are such that they're
derived from the fact that we have limited attention span that we now have become so focused on
a media graphification and moving on to the next thing that I'll bet we have people listening to this
program who have slipped in and out of it while we've been talking because we're always looking for
the next best thing or the next great thing and so it does seem as though you have to be quick
get people's attention and if you want to get somebody into a deep read because people do still
read people will pick up a book or they will read a long piece of journalism if it really is
compelling but you have to figure it a way to give it to them and give them I think the kind of
presentation that the now legendary New York Times sports piece Snowfall about the Adelanche did
that you have to give them not only a great read but also video to accompany it and sound and
little interstitials such that you can reach the short attention span of today's
course but will that methodology produce informed people in this country are we not I mean even
as at the same time that we you and I are doing that at our publications because we know we must
to survive I would venture to say that both of us sort of wish it was the other way it's hard
to explain why you should care about the debt limit and that kind of a story it's one thing to
describe an avalanche and have a great narrative but it is hard to get serious journalism or to
talk about a debt crisis you know those are just difficult issues but we've always had to
contend haven't we with the ice cream versus broccoli notion with giving people important news
versus giving them what's fun and attractive so it's just a challenge I'm not even sure we have
it down in schools where we're supposed to be educating textbooks are not widely read presentations
and classes are considered boring and and pass a now out of date how to present information is
is a problem way beyond just the media do all of your students carry iPads or tablets of some pan
the cell phone is more commonplace but iPads are common so are small mini tablets the mini tablets
and laptops that they'll bring in but the cell phone the the smartphone is that's the device we're
unveiling a new mobile site that is we will be reformatting so that we can better reach people
on mobile and this is I think the second mobile site in two years I mean we have to just keep
updating it to make it better and better because it is yeah it is it's really the way that you have
to reach people going forward and we're also going to be adopting a new video format for our staff
to shoot so that we can actually present more video you know one of the interesting things is that
for years we've been saying well we have to put more video into our presentation and the fact is
consumers haven't really been demanding it we seven or eight years ago I came back from a conference
and said I want everybody in the newsroom to get video training everybody I mean everybody in the
newsroom I was wrong because it hasn't been what people wanted it and I think your company
era was really pushing forward well we we have in fact we are now we've evolved two or three times
we're now very big into this video called TOUT which is a 45 second video as opposed to vine
which is the six second video as opposed to what we were initially doing which is more of a long
form video and TOUT seems to be the bounce we're striking but I agree with you but at the same time
I think you have to look at the video on websites and on mobile devices as part of a total package to
try to have a number of things that are going to generate reader engagement and to keep people on
your sites longer I think what frustrates somebody like me who is in sort of in the
another world I had retired I was out of the business six weeks now and back in at least temporarily
is that I read a press release from our CEO because our company had struck an agreement with a
an advertising or a page makeup venture and I remember what it was and he used phrases in the
press release that were unfamiliar to me and they were you know in the old days we might say
oh I don't know picking old newspaper phrase and then you the three of us would immediately know
what it means yeah but he was using modern day language and I thought I was pretty much up on
and I didn't know I had to ask somebody what does this mean so it's just evolving
faster than we can do it yeah wow if you're joining us it's the media project from northeast
public radio Irofezfeld publisher of the Daily Freeman in Kingston New York Rosemary Armeo
and investigative journalist and professor at UAlvin Eimrex Smith editor of the Times Union
I've just read what I think is a pretty important paper written by Kelly McBride who it
heads the ethics program at the pointer institute in Florida has to do with what is often reported
in the media which we've heard so much about you know bullying is a term that has just become
ubiquitous my goodness everybody claims that there is bullying going on it started with kids being
bullied in schools and then it's bullying and politics and it seemed to become one of the words
that I think maybe we should just strike from the lexicon for just a while to get over the virus
but one of the the important point to Kelly has pointed out here is that notwithstanding the fact
that journalists talk right all the time about young people committing suicide as a result of
bullying in the schools she writes reports there is no scientific evidence that bullying causes
suicide none at all she says lots of teenagers get bullied between one and four and one and three
teenagers report being bullied in real life fewer report being bullied online but among the people
commit suicide retries have found no researchers have found no good data indicating that they've
been bullied it's just an interesting point because it is a narrative that you see all the time in
the media and I think it probably comes as most of our problems do in journalism from a lack of
deep reporting of failing to push to get that extra nuance it is very easy for law enforcement
official to say this person was bullied and that's why the suicide occurred and for us to buy into
that narrative and it is imperative I think for journalists to look beyond that I'll accept the
report because I'm not an expert in it but on the other hand doesn't it stand to reason I mean
bullying is not new we all experienced it when we were kids but that the social media aspect of
it today adds a new element in that when we were bullied in the schools we could go home and we
would be safe from that bullying and now these kids are coming home and the bullying is continuing
on Facebook or on Twitter or wherever it is on social media and I just wonder if there's an
accumulation of bullying that suggests it is a factor but that all said if the report says otherwise
then they've done more research into it than I am. I'm interested to hear you say you've
considered this an important report I tend to look with suspicion I think that comes out of the
ethics police that are at the at the point or institute and in this case bullying has been
underreported and the press came back and you're probably right they've overdone it but there is
or there may be some connection just because science hasn't shown it yet and it seems like don't
make that connection I really object to that it's like not reporting that shark attacks are
happening because it makes it seem like there are more shark attacks happening I'm reporting on
shark attacks I'm going to report on bullying the real problem may be that journalists undercover
suicide and that has come from years of advice that if we cover or somehow glorifying and
encouraging copycats which I've never believed because if a suicide happens in a school they don't
need to read about it in the newspaper we've just been talking about how they don't read newspapers
anyway they know about it from word of mouth so if there's any copycat going on it's going on
because of what happens there so deeper coverage of suicide is clearly called for has been for
years and bullying may be part of that it may be a symptom we know this report says bullying does
not cause suicide we don't really know what causes suicide it doesn't it says we don't there's
no evidence that it does and that we when we allow police to say that it is I think the difficult
the difficult point and and whenever you write about suicide you're right whenever you write about
suicide speaking of the police we try very hard especially when writing about youth suicide to
follow guidelines that are set wrong but it's not for profit organization and we still get
scolded every time no matter how hard we try I'm sorry if I'm person taking a life is an important
story that deserves lots of press coverage why did that happen what can we do to prevent we should
be doing this in depth and for years we have not the all the years I was in newspapers were not what
do you guys do was it your experience when you were on newspapers and greeks currently at our
shop if someone commits suicide the name is not reported and the story may not even be reported
unless the suicide takes place in a public place or it involves public resources to come I mean
that's pretty much standard procedure and it's it's one of those stupid ethics rules where we don't
cover it unless we really want to cover it and then we come up with a reason to do it yeah and then
when you have the obituary of the young person the code is that died suddenly which more often
than not could mean that there was a suicide yeah yeah but so are we saying that we should be
revisiting we we do advocate every suicide be reported by name I think every death every homicide
every suicide is worthy of coverage the difficulty is I think when you don't push hard enough on
unofficial them and this is of course throughout journalism when I was a reporter I ended up
getting engaged in a big project involving a homicide involving teenagers in this beautiful
North Shore Long Island community of Northport the project the result of is called a shared secret
because teenagers were led to the side of the body and they kept this secret for a long time
that there had been this kid just vanished you know where is he he had been killed by friends
and the homicide squad captain when this was finally uncovered announced this was Satanism
this teenager killed this guy in the throes of Satanism he was he thought that he was hearing Satan
well in fact it was actually drugs our reporting led us to finally find out that the kid was high
on pcp what they used to call angel dust and it led to violence and one thing led to another he
thought that his friend had stolen some drug from him so our reporting lanced that notion of
Satanism and I think that's sometimes just what we need to do we need to just as always attach a
questioning eye to whatever official them offers us now that's a good lesson to take away from this
study to not accept any official version and to do more in depth reporting to report all the
aspects of the story and for people to read that in depth reporting in their
look there you go online or in-friend and go back and watch pbs you have another shot right thanks
for joining us this week on the meeting for adjunct how about that
extra extra read all about it it's a mess meets the test only spegerman meets up to the
resting people it's wonderful to represent the press now you remember Mrs. Sadie smuggering
she wanted money to buy a new fur coat to get insurance she employed still the green
she up and cut her husband's only throat she chopped him in the fragments she stuffed him in a
trunk she shipped it all back yonder to her uncle in poe don't now news peppermen meets such an
interesting people it must have startled poor old Sadie's on tingling a ling City test
hold the press hold the press extra extra read all about it it's a mess meets the test
only spegerman meets up to the resting people they know the lowdown now it can be told
i'll tell you fright reliably off the record about some charming people i have known
or i meet politicians and grafters by the score killers play and fancy it's really quite a
