You know if you need to take a break or whatever it is just right give it a pause
So first things first can you just tell me a little bit a little bit about you know who you are
What are you doing now?
How'd you get here
Well what I'm doing now is different than how I got to the beginning right so you know
Give it all give whatever you want to share you know any of that just you know
Start out with like kind of who you are
My name is Henry Heller
I am one of the founding members and
first director of VADP
Which at what point?
What's not called VADP at the beginning?
it was actually called
We named it Virginians against state killing and
I came across that I suggested that because there was a Texans against state killing
And I figured well you know camaraderie with them and let's call it at state killing
What it is well what it was then and
Shortly after that we you know we said I made a phone call to
Some legislator and I introduced myself as Henry Heller director of
Virginians against state killing and as soon as I said that I realized and
Why would I want to talk to you?
So I
Suggested we better change let's change that name and we became Virginians
Against Virginians against the death penalty and then shortly after that somebody suggested
You know why don't we change it to Virginians for alternative to the death penalty for alternatives to death penalty and
Because that's what we were promoting then we based our
Our whole premise of this organization came from a meeting
That was called by Marie Deans who was pretty much a
Mentor of mine and
She brought a group of us together and
and
Came
Told us about this poll that was done at Virginia Tech that
When Virginians were asked are you for against the death penalty
Virginians were pretty much
75% or so were for death penalty well next question asked well
What if there was an alternative of life with no possibility of parole?
Well support for the death penalty went down considerably but was still a majority and
Then a third question was asked and that was
What about an alternative of life with no possibility of parole for a minimum of 25 years
combined with restitution to victims families and
When the poll gave that question and gave Virginians that alternative well all of the sudden
Over 50%
57% if I remember correctly were in favor of that alternative and
So here we were brought this information and it's like well wait a second here Virginians don't want that death penalty if they're given an alternative and
so
A group of us decided that we were gonna do something about it. We were gonna start this organization and
We were gonna you know
do it
My where I come from all this personally was
In the late 80s I had joined Amnesty International in Charlottesville and
I was for the death penalty then I
believed that if you killed then you deserve to be killed and it was pretty simple and
Then someone gave me something to read and when I began reading
about the death penalty and
all this
involved with it and how unjust it was and
The cost of it and innocent people being executed and the whole idea of
Executing somebody for a crime that they committed 10 15 years ago. I
Mean all of this just like it hit me and said I can't support this anymore and
and
I guess I felt strongly enough that I
was gonna
work on this as a calling and
It just spiraled and the wheel kept going going going and going and going until it just kept it just kept going and
It was my life for 11 years from
1991 from the fall of 1991 to
the summer of
02 and
I'd spend and I'm a carpenter and
I didn't want to give up my work
At first we couldn't afford to pay me even if I did want to give up my work at some point we finally did make some money and
It was suggested let's pay Henry
because I was working on this
Day and night. I mean there was just everything that had to have been done and past directors know or
Anybody who's running an organization knows how much is involved newsletters phone calls lobbying
Going out and speaking to groups and I was doing more than just speaking to groups about the death penalty
I was also working with a child prevention program a violence prevention program called the choices your choices yours that was
That Roger Coleman had instituted in
On death row and so any chance that I got to go and show this video to
Students kids and schools. I went so I was constantly
going here and there whoever would listen to me and
It just kept spiraling and spiraling and got just constant
So you know you start VADP
You spend a decade with the organization and
And then just this year, you know
Virginia abolishes the death penalty. What what was it like?
You know kind of seeing that development from you know when you're trying to ward polls correctly to get Virginians
supposed the death penalty to it being abolished by the state legislature, you know
People have talked about it differently, but you're you're fighting an uphill battle in the early 90s
What's it been like to see you know the tables turn and to eventually like accomplish this right like we don't have the death penalty in Virginia
Just talk about you know how how that makes you feel like what it's like looking back on all the work you did that sort of stuff
When I left abruptly in
the summer June, oh two I
Cut
I mean I left I went cold turkey. I just dropped off the face of the earth
as
When it came to VADP I still kept my ties with Marie Deans and
I stayed in contact with Joe Jerry Tonto
But I cut my ties totally with VADP. I didn't want to know anything about the death penalty
But I kind of would follow it a little bit in the news and
towards the end of
Things started changing the mood started changing in the
Very late in the late 90s
DNA started becoming a factor the 21-day rule was starting to get looked at by the legislators and one of the things we did that
I am proud that I was able to we were able to do
Was bring this to the forefront we got this in the press
This information was going out and the next thing you know things were happening lawyers were getting more
Instead of their hot their their get law lawyers were getting more funding
Things were starting to and there were laws were getting passed to make it
Easier for lawyers to get the funding they needed for things
There was also all and lawyers will tell you about some of the
Laws that got passed that affected sentencing at the sentencing phase
Things were starting to boil
And
So and they were happening quickly
But when I left
And we were getting more press it was like I mean I was getting phone calls all the time press
Because one of the things that I was doing was getting information out on the website the worldwide web was a tremendous asset to us
Because it allowed me to get information out so I checked the press press and if I'd see anything related to the death penalty
I put it on there it got so that
Virginia
Papers and journalists would check our
Website every morning when they got to work to see what was going on if there was anything
newsworthy
So
And what I saw was an after I left
As the years went by I keep hearing you know every now and then there was a little tidbit about you know
about the death penalty
and
When I started noticing was that the numbers on death row were decreasing
And
I said the numbers are decreasing
That is a good sign
That means they're not putting people on death row
And it just kept going down and going down and going down
You know when I left I let like I say I left cold turkey and
You know I'll always
Feel bad about that because I left Jack Payton Travers and the board at that time just
So they had to gather all this information that I just left and they had to figure out what was going on
So I apologize for that
So the numbers on death row continue continue to go down until
They're down to five or two or something like that and I'm thinking wow great
But I'm still not
wanting to be in contact with the ADP and I remember there was even you know I and
VADP would reach out to me. We're having a you know a
Com not a conference, but an awards banquet blah blah blah and it's like I don't want to have anything to do with this stuff
but
When the word about the death penalty this year there was rumbling about an abolition bill because there were abolition bills when I was doing it
But they never got anywhere you never got out of committee, but now there's rumbling about yet the death penalty can fall and
When it finally fell
When when they voted when the vote came down
I kind of felt this
You know Henry it's okay
You know, it's okay. You don't have to feel this anger anymore
Accept it and you did what you did I'm proud of what I did and
It's okay. I don't have to feel this this animosity anymore
Because the organization had gone in a way
Away from the alternatives movement that I was so
That was my Bible that poll was my Bible and things were moving more towards the the organization was moving more towards abolition as opposed to
A poll you know this
What this poll what Virginians wanted?
and
I
Got you know I watched the
The ceremony of the signing and
It was like wow it happened who would have ever thought I mean we could only it maybe have dreamt about it in those days
But we never would have thought that we were maybe looking hopefully we can get a moratorium was the best thing we were hoping for
So it was a sense of wow it did it and
I
Remember that my friend Russ Ford called me a couple days after it happened and
And if anybody
Russ Ford with the chaplain on death row and
He's a dear friend of mine and he got me in as a
To be able to visit the men on row. I mean I went all in I was visiting the guys on row
I was I was doing everything when it came to
work on death penalty and
It was when he called that I finally
broke down
Because hearing his voice
May brought up all these emotions
of all my friends who'd been executed and
Just just brought up all these emotions and it was only them that I was able to like let it out
Yeah
It's yeah, it's a lifetime of work right and to see it
Tell me it felt like a lifetime those 11 years
Yeah, it's gotta be pretty great to you know you said when he started out you didn't even really
Think you have a shot. Oh gosh. Oh
No way we had a shot. I mean Virginia was entrenched in death penalty
We didn't realize that or I didn't realize so much that's all it takes is for the political climate to shift and
Which it did but one of the heartening things that I learned from that
From that ceremony at the prison where they signed it is how many
conservative Republican
former prosecutors
Were for abolition had become
In favor of abolition and when you get those guys on board
You know you
You've really made
You make progress
Yeah, so you mentioned you know a shift in the political climate
What else do you think contributed to
Going from you know in the early 90s
You know not having a chance the world at abolishing the death penalty to a couple decades later
You know it being gone. What do you think at least you know in the last five ten years or so really really shifted to push this to the forefront and
Eventually get it to where we are now
Well, I first started
Working on this I went to see my congressman who is from this area LF Payne
and
He you know he was for the death penalty, but I think he was for the death penalty because it was politically correct
Like a lot of legislators were and are
And he said Henry
You know things
Ideas kind of go like this
They go up and then they go down the political climate goes up and then it goes down
It's like the stock market it just
Up and down
So I think that you know and it held true in this case where I mean and the death penalty has taken that
Ever since the death penalty has been in use although you know it was more up there than it was down. I mean there was a brief hiatus
in the
70s
Where they abolished it there for a while and
You know it still come back. I mean where are all rejoicing in everything. It's wonderful, but
It's no
it doesn't say that
You know as as the time goes on that you get another
Legislature that comes in there and says we got to have the death penalty because crime rates are so high and
blah blah blah blah so it's easy to blame people and put it on the death penalty
And I just think the climate I mean it seems like
Things are getting people are accepting things more people may be listening more. They're willing to be educated and and
That is attributed to in from getting information out now
Getting information out seemed easier back then than it is now now you're just suspect of
Anything that you see out there. You don't know what to believe
Whereas it seemed like before
The whole Facebook stuff and all this and that
It seemed like we trusted the news more
We trusted where it was coming from because you don't know where it's coming from now
So you're forced to think about it and it's all about education and that and that's what we
We just tried to do is what educate people. I mean I
I'd have brochures. I always carried brochures in my bag and
If I'd go to a restaurant with my tip, I'd leave a brochure
You know wherever I could sometimes I'd be handing them out on on streets or whatever but you know we had one
One bumper sticker one phrase that we came up with was yes, Virginia. There is an alternative to the death
And that was so catchy
Because it asked the question it didn't say I
I opposed death penalty
It said yes, Virginia. There is an alternative for to the death penalty and we eventually got a
billboard on
64 coming into Richmond
from the West
Yes, Virginia. There is an alternative to the death penalty and when you give that all you have to do is say those words
Instead of I oppose the death penalty and I can't tell you how many times people would say oh
So what's your alternative? Well now we started conversation
You're interested in what I have to say so instead of me telling you I'm opposed to the death penalty
I can say well what about an alternative of life with no possibility of parole for a minimum of 25 years combined with
Restitution to the victims families
Oh
That's an interesting concept. Yeah, I can do that and believe me. I get that response often
so
Things change and if people are willing to hear you and listen
You know if you give them the information if you're you know, you're not coming at them as a I'm for it
Or you're against anything then people
Listen
So it can gears a little bit
The you already already touched on this in summer ground
Are there is there a specific person or their specific people?
maybe an event
And you know it can be more than one and it can be as many as you want that you know whether is during your time with the ADP or just like in your
in your
Journey you know against the death penalty for an alternative that sticks out, you know
You mentioned having friends who are on death row were eventually executed
So you know anyone that sticks out in your mind just like kind of in that journey like that was an important moment for you
I remember the first time I went to death row
uh
Rust took me in and we went in there and
We were walking through all these doors chain, you know bar doors and buzzed yet to get buzzed in everything locked up
Of course and this checkpoint frisk this many times and whatever and
we finally
kind of walked down these flight of stairs and came through the last door and the door opened up and
there was a
Guards
Tower what I mean indoor it was a guard space
glass and then
bars
and behind the bars were a bunch of people and
And there were what looked like little boxes or I guess they were their cells
further back a good
30 40 30 40 feet or so
And when we walked in
All these guys kind of rushed to the bars a number of them I don't know
15 20
and
And it was like whoa
and
They they just wanted to check out who was coming who was here they knew Russ but they wanted to check out this other guy
And I was just like whoa I was blown away
Because they were they were just looking for some human interaction
And
Besides themselves and besides the guards
They were looking at just
Human interaction
And it was like the planet of the eights
That's my take from it was they were all changed you know behind these bars just like in front of the eights
So that freaked me out good
Um and from that visit
You know a couple of guys were you know we kind of got some friendliness and there we got friendly
From that visit I
Became friendly friendlier with some of these guys and some of them were more friendly than others and
Uh
I just started
Going there more a couple more times and going to see these guys
And just
Bringing them you know, I'm a person who's interested
You know how you doing what's going on you know
And they talk they just wanted to talk a lot of them
um
96
There was a major push and a major killing spree that went on in the span
It was before new before Thanksgiving
Up and through the middle of December where they killed a bunch of my friends
Greg beaver was the first to go
Greg was such a beautiful so
He made a bad mistake when he was young killed a cop
Who was he was on the run and did something bad on the run
Got scared cop pulled him over got scared shot him
But he was such a gentle soul he loved to draw
And uh so you got to know these guys as family and you got to know their families
And and because a lot of it had to do with Marie deans because Marie was a support system
For the men on rail and being that I'd spent a lot of time at her office in Richmond
I got to know more and more of their families and whatnot
um
Buff
I can't wait the long was buffsnave everybody had a nickname in there. Joe pain was breeze
Larry stout was taz
um
Lim tuggle was tug
You know they all had their their names
and um
I did get to I never I was in the death house once and that was to uh
See Larry stout taz before he was because I was particularly close to Larry
and uh
Went to see him before the day before he was executed on death row and that was like uh
Not a death row he was now into the death house in Greensville
And of course that was pretty weird and
I remember leaving
After saying goodbye to him and
Tug was
Also being they were killing him like a couple of week at that time it they were lining him up
And Tug was Tug was this big fat guy always had a smile on his face. He had this beard
smile
And he's in a cell that a holding cell there and
Tug's bawling his eyes out his crying poor tugs
They're gonna kill taz
They're gonna kill taz
And uh, you know all I can do is hold them through the bars
Tug it's gonna be okay taz won't have to suffer
And you two brother good luck
Uh fortunately during that spree
Joe Payne
Breeze who was I was uh kind of close to
He got a reprieve
from uh
Then governor Georgia Allen of all people who um
Realized that evidence to prove that he didn't
Kill the guy who they say he killed that sent into death row
um
He got a reprieve and
um
To this day we're in contact he's in augusta and uh, he's hanging in he's aged and he'd love to get out
but um, we've
We're in contact and uh
You know
Hopefully he will you know see
See the light see the you know outside of prison cell
Before he he's gone
