I don't know that I have many more questions.
Trying to take away from...
So, you touched on it.
How important do you think it was when you started out that you all as a group made the shift from just being against the death penalty to being fuller and alternative?
At least in that situation, but also just generally the importance of staying at force something rather than just against something else.
What do you think about the importance of that?
That happened pretty early on where we changed the name.
We didn't... Virginians against a killing... I don't know, didn't last more than...
I don't... It was less than a year if that long and then Virginians against the death penalty didn't last that long either.
From our inception in the fall of 91 till when Virginians for Alternatives to the death penalty was created wasn't long and it just made so much sense.
It really changed everything for us.
I feel.
The VASC acronym was a nice little acronym, but it was worth it.
I'll remember that in our group, we...
Someone designed a t-shirt that had a neat graphic on the front that said,
an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
And somebody had put together some really nice graphic with this eye.
So you wore this thing and people got mesmerized by this eye.
So it was a great graphic because it caught people's attention.
And on the back, we put down...
We had the quote of, why do we kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
It gets you thinking, it's a question.
Now, there were a group in our group, there were a number of people in our group who insisted that after that saying on the back,
why do we kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
They insisted that it would say, I opposed the death penalty.
And I'm like, no.
Because when you say, I oppose the death penalty, you have just cut off all communication.
Because that person who you're trying to reach is saying, you're opposed to the death penalty?
Well, I'm not. I'm for the death penalty and you're wrong.
There is no conversation.
You have cut off everything when you say, I oppose.
So when this kind of group of people who insist, and I kind of went along with it just because whatever, I didn't want to fight it.
As soon as that group of people kind of moved on, I went to the printers first thing.
And I said, delete. I oppose the death penalty. Please. You can do that, right?
I delete it now. I don't want any more of these t-shirts printed. Let's say that.
And all of a sudden people are asking, now there's conversation.
Now you haven't given this definitive, I oppose the death penalty.
Now we can have a conversation. Why do we kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
Oh, yeah, that's interesting.
So I thought that was a major turning point at the early days of our organization.
I think also another major turning point was the journey of hope.
When the journey of hope, at that point it was murder victims' families for reconciliation.
They had their journey of hope tour that many people are familiar with.
Of murder victims' families who are opposed to the death penalty traveling throughout the state every year.
And I went on my first journey in Georgia in 1995. Oh, I make that 1994.
And I saw the power that it had, where you get people who've had their daughters murdered, their parents murdered, their grandparents murdered,
and they're talking about, I don't want the death penalty.
And some of these people were like, yeah, I go see the guy who killed my parents.
I'm at peace with that. I'm done hating that person because it's killing me.
So I want to reach out because that person needs help.
And I want to be there for them. Powerful stuff.
Powerful stuff.
And that was a big turning point.
And we brought him here to Virginia in 96. For the first time, I understand there were journeys after that.
Or at least one, if not more.
And we transversed the state and countless, you know, a number of speaking engagements all over.
And people listen. When you bring a murder victims' family member into a room talking about the death penalty, people are listening.
That's like an anomaly person who's been affected by the death penalty.
Is that their loved one killed and they're not for the death penalty?
Wow. I want to go here with that guy, as he say, or that person has to say.
So shifting gears quite a bit here.
The death penalty is abolished from Virginia.
You mentioned this fact that it's not like it's permanent. It couldn't come back.
But with an optimistic view, the arc of justice is long, but it depends towards justice.
What's next for Virginia? The death penalty is gone. Where do you see it going from here?
Well, I understand there's headway happening with the federal death penalty.
I mean, a number of states have already abolished the death penalty.
I think, I mean, if it can fall in Virginia, it can fall anywhere.
It's all about the state legislature.
As long as the federalies aren't dictating that, and that's what they did in 72,
when they allowed states to make the decision whether they want to have a death penalty or not,
at first there was a federal moratorium on it.
And then the Supreme Court said, well, we're going to leave it up to the states.
And that's when the states took it upon themselves.
As long as you still have these predominantly right-wing believers of an eye for an eye,
you're going to have it until legislators start changing.
I mean, it happened in Virginia, but Virginia is an anomaly.
Virginia touches on the North.
Virginia is the northernmost southern state.
So, you know, we see what's going on here in Virginia, with not only the death penalty.
It can't happen.
Anything can happen.
So we'll find out, I guess at some point, how this all evolves.
With the current administration and current adjourning general, I believe there's rumblings.
They're talking about it.
It's interesting.
We see Virginia of all shit.
We've got some hope at the federal level, and then South Carolina brings back the firing squad.
Right.
It almost seems like things are going in two different directions.
Yeah, they are.
And just, well, look at the United States of America these days.
We've never been so polarized.
And I don't know how you get out of this.
The cancer that has been bestowed upon us here is going to take quite a bit of doing to undo.
Good luck.
You know, if it can get undone, who knows what it'll take, because we're seeing it every day.
We've seen what has become of us here.
And it's frightening.
I don't suspect that everybody's going to Texas and South Carolina and Alabama, Mississippi,
and all these places are going to be turning anytime soon.
But you know, you talk to people.
I see, you know, young people and music festivals, you know, that I go to.
Oh, they're from Alabama or something like that.
And, you know, they're progressive.
But who knows what it's going to take.
Got a shot, but it might be a long one.
Well, whoever thought that it would happen in Virginia.
So it can happen.
And as fast as it can happen, it can go back to it.
It's just...
The work is far from done.
I mean, the work is done, you know.
It's not done.
Of course, the work will never be done, especially now, how you want to do, like I say,
what do you want to do?
What's become of us here?
This is going to take a major... I'm doing.
The cancer is here.
And it's growing.
It's just growing.
And while you have people preaching hate and people preaching mistrust,
and people believing in it,
i.e. my line, what you believe, it's all perception.
Well, you say, I'm lying.
And i say, you're lying.
So what are we going to do?
How do we get through all this?
will say is that the death penalty also became, you know, everybody can, it wasn't like every
conservative about theirs for the death penalty there. You know, that's not at all the case.
Yeah, there's plenty of, you know, fully right libertarian types that are beating you
basically at the same spot that the station be killing people, right? So, you know, people,
a number of people have talked about how, you know, some people swing so far right, they end up
meeting you back left at certain points, right? And some really good work has been done kind of at
that nexus. So maybe there's other places that that can happen. You bring up an interesting point
and it reminds me of, you know, I used to go to fairs and set up a table, always setting tables
up wherever I could and with my band partner. And right across the way there was the
Liberkering Group, the Rutherford Institute. And they had these pamphlets against the death penalty.
And I had heard of the Rutherford Institute and I thought they were, you know, conservatives,
libertarians or what they are. But I thought they were conservative and whatnot. And here they're
preaching that they're against the death penalty and it's like, wow, I gotta go see this guy.
I gotta go see whoever is running this show. And it just so happened they're based out of Charlottesville.
John Whitehead is the director there. He still might be. He's been there forever.
And I go see this guy. And he's just really warm to me, offering me office space.
It's like, I don't want to get that tight with you. I didn't say that. Oh, no thank you. I
politely declined to the office space. But all of a sudden John Whitehead is on our advisory board.
Well, if I'm getting a letter from you and I see John Whitehead on my, on this advisory board,
well, I know who that guy is. He's conservative. And he's for alternatives to the death penalty.
Oh, well, I'm going to read this letter that I've done. That advisory board, we got as many
legislators as we could on it. And anybody that I, you know, had some name. Would you be on our
advisory board? And it worked, right? Eventually. When you say it worked, meaning
I mean, the death penalty was abolished. Yeah. Well, like we got there. We got there.
We got there. And it was, it was quite momentous.
I don't know that I have any other questions other than the one to final one about, you know,
what do you want to say to the people that are going to be at that lunch? And is there anything else
you want to talk about before we start to wrap it up? Before we go to the part of speaking
directly to participants at all. Gosh, it was so much that that went down and so much happened
in those 11 years. And I just don't know. I mean, I'm sure I've forgotten things that, you know,
everything was such turmoil. I mean, we'd after at the night of executions, I'd go to be at the
office, you know, Marie's office. Marie would never be there because she was couldn't handle it.
And I'd be in the office with one of her assistants there. And we'd be taking phone calls or whatever.
And you know, you put in so much time, I mean, it was every morning I'd wake up.
I'd go to my computer, look at what I can do post stuff. In the evening, I'd come home after work,
back to the computer. Whatever had to get done, in correspondence,
writing the next newsletter, setting up the next conference, getting in touch with this
legislator, setting up speaking engagements, I'm missing things. I'm not remembering things,
you know, taking the phone calls, speaking to the press. You know, when I quit abruptly,
I got a call from Frank Green, who's the journalist, who was one of the reasons,
journalists like Frank was one of the reasons that eventually this death penalty came to an end.
He just kept on it constantly, writing about it. It's just giving the information now.
And he said, and he calls me and I wasn't taking his calls because I had, I had it. I went
cold turkey man. And he keeps calling. And I finally pick it up. Henry, are you okay?
Oh yeah, Frank, I'm fine. What's going on? What do you mean, Frank? Nothing's going on.
Well, I haven't seen anything on the website in a couple of days. What's going on?
Nothing's going on, Frank, you know, you know, looking for words and he goes, Henry,
what's going on? All right, Frank, I quit. And he, he just, he goes, you quit?
And I said, yeah, I quit. What happened? Oh, I just decided I had enough, you know, I quit.
He said, well, I got to write an article about this.
And I said, Frank, why do you need to write an article about this?
Directors of organizations come and go all the time. You know,
and he said, no, yeah, directors come and go all the time. But you made your mark here.
You were the person, Mr. Death Mountain, to talk to. I need to write an article about this.
And I'm like, Frank, I don't get it. I'm just just regular Joe. I don't understand what the
big deal is about it. And he said, well, trust me, this is news. And I said, okay, whatever.
So, I guess, you know, another thing happened to is, you know, on a personal note, my, my mom and dad
were, were never really interested in this. You know, they knew that I told them that I was doing
this stuff and they were for the death penalties of they never knew it. And, and one time,
and I didn't have a great relate adult relationship with my parents. And at one point,
I had to go take care of my dad because my mom was going in for an operation. And so,
I got to spend some time with my dad. And the subject came up.
And I said to my dad, well, how would you let, what would you think if I was on death note?
And he just like turned away and shook his head because he was like, you know, God forbid.
And it was almost like all of a sudden something ticked in him. I wasn't asking him to be
for against death penalty. But I was trying to just trying to explain to him what I was doing,
why I was doing and why he could be proud of me. And I said, you know, I talked to lawyers.
I talked to politicians. They call me, the lawyers call me, the politicians call me,
the TV radio call me. You know, you should be proud of that. And I think something in him,
you know, I think I got a call from a judge once. So, you know, try to be proud of that. And I think
you got that after a long. So, if you have no other questions on.
Yeah. So, I mean, just generally, you know, if there's something you want to say,
the people out that are going to be at that luncheon, you know, and you can look
sure to the camera. Yeah.
Hello, all. And welcome to this event that BADP has put together to commemorate.
This occasion that we've all worked so hard for.
It was a privilege. And it was an honor to spend those years, 11 years of my life,
building the present form of the abolition movement in Virginia.
Yeah.
VADP started in 1991. Here we are 2021. It's 30 years later. And this one organization
lasted for that long. And there have been other organizations in the past that was the movement
in Virginia. For this organization to have lasted for that long 30 years. And when I left
the organization in 02, 11 years after we had started in 1991, I kind of left it cold turkey.
And I now apologize to the people who I may have hurt. And to the board at that time and to
Jack Payne-Travers who took over after me. And to his daughter who I just wouldn't return calls
and whatnot. But that's what happened. I am happy to say that, you know, I'm here to speak to you
today that what happened happened. But it's, you know, to the directors that came to the organization
that there was this willingness to keep the movement going. It didn't die because Henry
Heller decided to quit. You all kept it going. That's that that meant something that meant that we had
there was I guess we had created enough of a basis of a foundation to this organization
to keep it going. And as it went, it just picked up more and more steam.
And it was a recognized group that couldn't hire lobbyists and field organizers and whatnot.
I mean, we didn't have any of that stuff.
So, in Hebrew we say,
Koha Kavod, which means all the honor to you. And you have kept this movement going.
And we all rejoice now in the abolition of the death penalty.
I mean, it's it's it's wonderful to personally for me to feel that something that I was
responsible in getting going years later after I had was was done with it just was still out there.
And we I wish all the best and that VADP does not have to reemerge because who knows,
remember, it goes up and down. But you all worked hard. Everybody worked hard on this. And
it's a great day. So, blessings.
That's great.
