Okay. All right. So thank you for your participation and your willingness to show your memories
and knowledge about the historical events. The purpose of this research is to create
a public record of experiences from people who witnessed or participated in counter-protests
that occurred at UAlbany in the spring of 2023. Questions can be answered with respect
to either or both counter-protests that occurred in relation to the following two events.
There was the TPUSA event to feature speaker Ian Hallworth on Tuesday, April 4, 2023.
And there was the anti-abortion display by created equal, which is based in Ohio and New York
State right to life with LED screens featuring graphic images on the podium in front of the
campus centers on Wednesday, April 19, 2023. This interview is for an oral history essay assignment
for a research seminar class in the Department of Women's Gender and Sexuality Studies taught
by Dr. Rajani Bhattia at the University at UAlbany. By doing the interview, you indicate
that you are 18 or over and that you are voluntarily choosing to participate and be audio or video
recorded. I will use your interview as the basis for an essay assignment. The video and
or audio recording of your interview may be archived in digital form for future viewing
and may be displayed in full or in part on a public internet site for use with appropriate
citation. Additionally, the faculty member interviewer or other students in the class conducting
these interviews may desire to produce a resulting research paper, research article, website
and or film. Your name will be attached to your story as a recorded experience and public
record. Do you agree to participate? Yes, I do. Awesome. The Department of WGSS greatly
appreciates your participation in this oral history project. I'll also add that there are
no right or wrong answers. I'm interested in your unique experiences, knowledge and viewpoint.
Feel free to decline to answer any question and the recording can be stopped at any time.
The interview shouldn't take more than an hour. Before we get started, do you have any questions
for me? No, I'm also. Alright. Let's see.
Please get me all mixed up over here. Okay, there we go. Alright. So, so, Anjali, how did
you come to know about the events? So I'm primarily know more about the anti-abortion event
just because that when I spent more time at and the TPU I say when I didn't, but the
for the TPU I say when I had seen the Instagram post that the organization had put up regarding
the speaker coming and I had done a little bit of research into the speaker and seen that,
you know, he had said some pretty problematic things in the past. And then I had seen
following that. I saw that the flyers going around campus about drowning out transphobia
and how they were going to be a counter event. And then, and so that's primarily how I
found out about that. And I talked about it in the circles that I run in on campus.
And then for the for the anti-abortion protest, if I'm remembering correctly, I don't think
I heard, I think I had heard, like I heard kind of almost in rumor format, like the week
before it was happening that somebody had let me know that there was going to be some
kind of anti-abortion group on campus the following week that the administration didn't
say no to because they couldn't. And I was like, that's crazy. You know, that's, that's
insane. And so I think, and then I think it was like officially confirmed when I saw
it going on Instagram and I saw myself on campus.
All right. And so you said the some of the circles you ran in, did you also, like, were
you also talking about that, the anti-abortion event with them as well?
Yes. Yeah, with my friends, with the club that I'm a part of, yeah.
Sure. What can I ask what club you're a part of?
So I'm the president of democracy matters. It's a like a political, mon part is in political
organization on campus.
Awesome. That's super cool. Honestly.
Yes.
So when you, so you heard about the protest, so did you plan on attending like the counter
protest that happened in response to that or was that more like spur of the moment when
it was there? How did I guess kind of like what motivated you to attend the counter
protest if there was any motivation?
So for the U.S.A event, I knew I wanted to attend the, because before it kind of turned
into what it did, I just thought that it was going to be like, you know, a little celebration
in the transfer lounge. And so I knew that I wanted to attend that to show my support
for the trans committee on campus. And I actually had to email out to our club members and
said, we encourage you to attend that event. We're going to go as a club and show our
support for trans students on campus. So that was that I knew I wanted to attend that
the drowning out of transphobia event in the transfer lounge. And then for the anti-abortion
protest, I remember I wasn't, I didn't know that there was going to be a counter protest
happening. Like I didn't know that there was going to be students who were going to have
signs and standing right across from them. And I remember like walking through right
after my class that I took last semester, actually with Dr. Batia. And I didn't, I don't
know, I can't, I don't think I actually stood with the counter protest folks, but I walked
around and I didn't, I didn't speak to a few of the anti-abortion protestors as well.
So I think I knew I wanted to for sure do something in regard to both events at the time.
I was just kind of a matter of figuring out what.
All right. I don't know if that answers the question.
No, that's super does that super does. This is especially interesting too because I think
the only information I had was that you had experience with the second event, but not
with the first. So yeah. So with the first one, I guess from like from the first event,
from like from the beginning to the end, like, can you describe like what you witnessed
or how you participated.
Mm hmm. So I only attended for the first like 10 minutes or so of that one because that
night was actually meeting. And so the reason why I don't, I actually don't have a lot
of experience with what happened at the the protest for the TPUSA event just because
my club was meeting that night. And so the first for the first part of our meeting, our
members were going to attend the counter event to the to ease speech. And then based
so essentially I we got there and it was in the transfer lounge and then we saw people
starting to move upstairs. And I was like, Oh, I didn't realize we were going to be moving
upstairs. And so there were some members who were saying, can I go with them? And I was
like, well, I'm not going to tell you not to feel free to do what you want. You know,
that's totally to you. But we did all end up walking upstairs. And we end, we did end up
going inside the room with the rest of the crowd. But we I was only there and our members
were only there for about 10 minutes or so when the chanting had started. And we knew
we wanted to have our regularly scheduled meeting, our club meeting because we had some
things planned. But we stayed there for about 10 minutes. And honestly felt it was pretty
it was pretty cool to experience the amount of support and students that came out to show
support for the queer and trans community on campus. So it was it was pretty it was really
it was kind of awesome to see the room kind of filled with people who really care about the
issue. So that was kind of my experience with that with the anti abortion protest. I had left
my class my morning class with Dr. Vatia and our entire class actually almost our entire class
actually walked over because the class I took was activism and health. And we were all
talking about reproductive justice, anti abortion movements and all that. So we all walked over
together and I was just shocked. I was like, this is crazy. Seeing the pictures on the screens,
how inaccurate they were, how just like disturbing it was for students walking by. And I think I
was probably there for like like 30 or 40 minutes engaging in a conversation with a couple other
students with two of the women who were protesting that that were part of the I think create to life
is what you said or yeah, I was I had it written down but created created equal. Yeah, yeah, or yeah,
I'm like that. So I was listening primarily for the first part to I forget who it was who was
speaking to this protester. But one of the students I think I don't think this one student was
in my class. I think she was a separate person who would come, but we were all kind of standing
in a group talking to this one woman who was behind a like the railings that they had set up.
And so I remember just going back and forth and like not not me personally, but listening to
the back and forth and just being completely like just I don't even I was just in awe. I was like,
this is insane. The stuff that she's telling us. And so there was that. And then I think that
conversation started to die down. And I eventually ended up moving into another group,
smaller group that was standing with another one of the protesters who had her like 14-year-old
daughter with her. And she was saying a lot of the she was just viewing a lot of like serious
misinformation. And she was an older than the first woman we were talking to. And in that conversation,
I did do a little bit more like actually speaking with her like I started I spoke and I said a
couple things to her myself along with the others that I was standing with. And that conversation
was just again it was just ridiculous the amount of misinformation that she was spewing. And also
I remember I remember very distinctly saying I remember thinking back that day that she had her
young daughter with her and her daughter's friend I think. And some of the stuff that this woman was
saying was very concerning for me to hear in front of her daughter. I'm trying to remember what
it was it might come back to me. But and I'm not 100% sure like the timeline of when these two
things particular things happened. But there was the talking with the two protesters and then I do
also remember I think as I was walking away because I was like I need to just I need to go move on
and do other things that I had going on that day. I was walking away. And another person who was not
clearly with the created equal group. She was kind of standing in the middle of the podium in between
where the counter protest was happening and where the where the like the actual anti-abortion protest
she was kind of floating around the middle. And I was walking through there and I was just kind
of looking around I like slowed my pace down a little bit to sort of just see what was going on.
And this woman came up in front of me like a full grown woman came up to me and she was like
basically it was a weird conversation. She was like you know it's crazy what's happening here
today right. And I was like yeah it is I thought I initially I thought she was saying that this whole
anti-abortion protest is crazy. That was my first impression of what she was saying. And I was like
yeah it is and I was trying to be careful not to you know respond too heavily and I forget exactly
what she had said but she got into some random conversation about blood diamonds. I don't know
where I don't know how blood diamonds came up but she was tying it to abortion somehow.
And then I remember her saying something distinctly that indicated that she was anti-abortion that
she was with the group. And I was like oh I was like I am not continuing this conversation
with you and I walked away I left because I was like it was just so weird I didn't understand
what she was trying to say I didn't understand her point but I did end up figuring out that she
was with the anti-abortion group. And then I just I left after that. So I think it was about 30
minutes that I was at the anti-abortion event. And I did walk through it a couple more times to do
other things and see what was going on. I saw the counter protest kind of get bigger and bigger as
time went on. So I think I don't know if that answers a lot of your question but it's super yeah
no I mean these are open questions so you know the kind of whatever comes to mind is super beneficial.
Can I like what time-ish did you do you think you would have been showing up then if it was after
that one class? Do you know around what time of day? So I think my class ended at 1130 so I was
probably there until about 1230 quarter to one I think. Okay I may have been there until one but
yeah I think that's what probably it was. So like somewhere in that like 1140 to like
one o'clock-ish range. Yeah okay. Kind of ran at the start of the whole thing. I think it was at
the towards the beginning of the anti-abortion protest if I'm not mistaken too. I don't know how
you were set up there but they were they were set up they had the podium from I believe 9 to 4 so
they were packing up around three or so. Yeah yeah and so I'm gonna I do have some more like
questions I'd be curious about with the the TPUSA one but I'm gonna stay with the anti-abortion one
for a little while. So you like do you I guess you know where can you recall like the sights and
the sounds of the event or the the counter protest or like just what the weather that day was any any
kind of like what did it actually like feel like to to be there I guess that day. So in terms of like
I don't remember it being very loud at the time like when I was walking through I remember it just
kind of being these people standing there talking to people individually they weren't like chanting
the actual protesters they weren't chanting or anything and when I got there I don't remember
the counter protest I don't think was in full flood yet or I think maybe it was but it hadn't like they
hadn't really started chanting anything if they were chanting at any point but I remember being kind
of quiet I remember there being like kind of a chill in the air like I don't think it was super warm
that day it was cloudy so it was kind of just the whole the whole experience was just kind of like
bone chilling a little bit you know just with the weather being kind of not super warm and then also
this just you know this just disturbing protest going on and like I remember just being very like in
terms of how I personally felt being there I remember being very just like just like disheartened
and just very upset and like what like I just felt like I couldn't do anything it was just very you
know it was just it was tough to stand there and like experience take all this in and realize that
there's really nothing that I can do about them being allowed to be on this campus because you know
our administration is bound by law to allow them to come on campus so I remember just being kind of a
chilly day and it was wasn't super loud but there was a lot of conversation happening there were a lot
of people talking there were a lot of people walking around there were a lot of administrators walking
around as well and so I can definitely tell that there were people who were trying to like kind of
the administrators who were walking around were passing out little like free speech like little cards
that said like what isn't isn't allowed on campus and why the university has to allow this group to
come on campus which was kind of helpful but I remember it being just you know there was a lot of
different like there was the counter protests there was the actual protesters there were the people
in between who were trying to mediate and then there were the students who were like really worked
up and so I remember just being like a very there was a lot of like conflicting like conflicting like
tensions and motions and like just feelings in in the space like just on the podium I remember
like kind of feeling that way at least yeah like the atmosphere in general yes and uh can you
describe for me like I guess kind of your impression of the like actual like protesters and then maybe
um your impression because you said you said that there were the protesters there were you know the
the folks who were were more or less counter protesting whether that was organized or not and then
there's the people who were kind of mediating in the middle um can you do you feel like you could
describe kind of what those those groups uh were like you know maybe who was part of them or if
there was anything notable about the groups in particular um so with the anti-abortion protesters um
I don't know if there was anything in particular about I mean they were I think they were almost
all women I don't know if there were any men I can't remember um but I think they were primarily
women they were primarily white women as well um and they were just they had a very um kind of the
whole time I was engaged in a conversation with them they had a very sort of like condescending tone
um very much like you are a hundred percent wrong and I am one hundred percent right there was
basically there was essentially no room for discussion um no room for us to really argue our
counter points um it all just ultimately came back to like this is when life begins and anything
else is wrong I am right that kind of thing mm-hmm you guys kind of what I remember I also remember to
like the one the second conversation I was in that woman she seemed a little bit more confident and
and very she was actually a lot more confident and very much more um I don't know if like a
startup is the right word but she was very much more like forward about the fact that we were wrong
and she is right but the first woman I spoke to definitely seemed more timid um she didn't seem
like she was like she wasn't backing away from the conversation at all but she seemed less sure
responses to us um and more kind of like almost more like kind of trying to deflate or not deflate um
I try to think of the term but kind of like deflect deflect from our questions the questions
that that one student was asking her um because I don't think I remember her really providing any
legitimate answers to any of the questions we had um but the other woman definitely was you know
leaning on um you know research and just evidence that wasn't entirely accurate um to answer some
of our questions um and then in terms of the counter protest students I don't know if I was
there I don't know if there was any chanting or if I remember being there long enough um for
you me to see any chanting but I remember a bunch of students had gathered and were standing
holding signs and um I think maybe there was I can't exactly remember what they were doing but I
do remember they're holding holding signs and kind of standing together um and then in terms of
the mediators um sorry can you just re-ask your question so I know what I'm
um yeah no that's fine uh just more or less if there were any anything about any of those like
groups of people that were that stood out to you that felt notable that uh was worth kind of
talking about to you right right so then with the with the administrators and some of the staff
you all but university staff that were there who were trying to like make sure things didn't kind
of spiral out of control they were definitely like they were definitely intentionally kind of
in the spaces where there was a lot of contentious conversation happening which I think you know
wasn't necessarily a bad thing I think it was probably good that they were there um but I do
remember talking to this one woman um and I remember asking one of I forget I don't know who it was
um but one of the you all but any administrators or staff members um and we're asking her like
they're allowed to be here really even though this is entirely disturbing and disrupts students
day and she was like yeah unfortunately as ridiculous as this is we have to let them on campus
and she said that I was like oh so she clearly disagrees with um the whole protest itself um
something along those lines is what she said the those wasn't that wasn't an exact quote but
um but yeah I do remember like there was also I think if I remember correctly there was a
post-it board as well that you all but any staff had put together um like basically a place where
you can kind of express how you were feeling you put it on the board and then we're just kind of
gonna kind of leave it up there um which I thought was good and I appreciated them having that um
but yeah in terms of the I'm trying to think about more about what I remember with the
counter protesters but I don't think I remember anything super distinct I do remember seeing a very
decent amount of my like peers and friends and people that I'm taking classes with and all that too
and and and I guess just to remind me um uh what is like what is your your major or your field or
area because like I guess that kind of helps us contextualize that so I'm a public policy major
and I completed a minor in women's studies last semester WGSS and then I'm also I also completed
a concentration in law and civil rights um for my major awesome super cool yeah um and you're also
because you said you're also the president of it was democracy matters yes yes yes and are you
involved in any other organizations on campus um no other like student groups and clubs but I am a
part of the student association which is um I don't know if you've heard they're kind of like the
governing student government and copy for the um school I am on the election commission so I
oversee all the elections at the I basically run all the elections for the student body that we
have for the senate body um for president vice president all that kind of stuff super cool yeah yeah
sounds busy yes busy good definitely definitely um so the next session I guess is kind of like
about afterwards both you know was there anything that like happened afterwards after you had left
that you um heard about and then also like also like how did you process that experience which
we can if you want we could start with that first half and then get get into the the processing but
was there anything else I guess was there anything else that you came up afterwards that you heard about
um well of course there was the whole incident with um professor overdike and when I heard about
that happening I think that I think I saw the video and like heard about it happening on the day um and
that was incredibly upsetting to see how that was part of you know just how the the fact that she was
just completely um violated by the the police officers that um were like handling her um I
I but when I remember I remember kind of when I left from the experience and was just kind of
thinking about it I was like wow that was really bad that was horrible I was just kind of upset I
remember I remember going straight to talk to some of my friends who were sitting in a study room
um they were all talking about how they just they don't even want to go because it's just horrible um
and I was like no that's totally valid but then you know that as the day went on I heard about what
happened with professor overdike and I was like that's just so much worse it just added so much more
stress um and just more of that like like kind of like like pit in my stomach feeling a little bit
like especially given this was right after um the counter protest for the TPU essay event like it just
it felt like it was just kind of you know especially particularly after the anti-abortion
protest it was sort of just like this you know pit in my stomach feeling all day um after I left um
but I was just I think part of me left with think with hoping that you know um
like something more would be done to stop this kind of just nonsense to be frank um but yeah
I think that's kind of my answer to the first part of the question yeah uh yeah and it does start
also to to kind of answer um the second half as well so like how did you process your experience
afterwards um which kind of includes like what thoughts and concerns did you leave with uh like
who did you talk to you said you talked to some friends um and uh I guess we'll start there like
what thoughts and concerns did did this whole kind of experience like leave you with um or at least
did the event specifically leave you with um so I remember I remember thinking to myself how upsetting
it was that they were just kind of spewing a lot of misinformation um a lot of just I remember being
in that the conversations and thinking to myself in the conversations that this is just all of this is
excuse me language of BS and then like language permitted language permitted I would say
and then um when I left um and as I was walking away and kind of sitting down and reflecting um
it was just like I just I was concerned for the other students while being number one
because I remember seeing on social media somebody had posted on their story that there's a huge
anti-abortion protest happening right in the middle of podium so try to avoid it if you can um somebody
had shared that they were just really like shook shaken up by it after they you know kind of saw
everything um and so I was just I was very concerned for fellow students and the student body who had
to deal with experiencing this um and then I think then there was also this the whole situation with
this one woman who had brought her daughter and I'm trying to remember what exactly she said that made
me so like just I was just that made me so concerned that she was saying this about um saying this
in front of her daughter but it was just I something to do with like actually having an abortion um
with her I think her just to me it seemed like her daughter is the her daughter and her daughter's
friend I think were kind of like I couldn't tell how they felt but it she actually oh that this is
what I remember the woman actually used her daughter as an example of like kind of like in her
argument about abortion like pulled her daughter forward and was like this is the result of me not
having an abortion and I was just like well why are we using the 14 year old girl in this conversation
like let's you know leave her alone and I remember leaving and sitting with my friends and just being
like that is horrible that you know someone would stoop to that level of bringing in a child
into this conversation and not that I don't think that 14 year old shouldn't be engaging in the
conversation it's just about the fact that she had she was subject to all of these college students
surrounding her and um you know not necessarily yelling at her because we weren't yelling at the
girl or no one was yelling at anyone really but um just that you know her mother pulled her you know
into such a like I just I don't know it just didn't sit right with me that her her mother had pulled
her daughter into this and then like you know I you know something all in lines of like you know
she's my daughter I would never have chosen to abort her and it was just it just really didn't
say right with me I was like that is this just seems so wrong in so many ways um so I was I also kind
of left admittedly a little concerned for her and just like you know what is this going to do for
her own mental health but um yeah I think and like I said I spoke to students I did I think I did talk
to a couple I don't know if I had any other classes that day I don't think I did um but um
I'm trying to remember if I if I talk to any professors I do remember the the following week though
in the in my class with Dr. Vatia the one that we came from we did spend some time kind of debriefing
from it talking about it and being like you know it was just talk you know you know
having a space Dr. Vatia provided a space for us to sort of just share how we were feeling which
was really helpful and kind of debrief as a class because we all were feeling the same way so it
was nice to know that we had um you know our friends there to um rely on a little bit um but yeah
yeah so really like being able to to have the kind of community uh space like especially with
with someone to facilitate that I totally understand what you what you mean by that uh yeah
she she our class is a bit like that too sometimes this semester
yes um so if so with those those concerns especially with your like concerns about
the the immediate concerns about the students but also any of the more like ongoing concerns do
uh did you feel like that they were were addressed at all or is it
uh uh or they do you have any ongoing concerns or are they ongoing concerns?
I don't yeah I don't really know if anything was addressed I think it kind of just the whole
thing took place there was all of the nonsense with um professor overdack not necessarily on her
part just the the situation itself the fact that she isn't teaching that she still I think she
still isn't back teaching is that if I'm correct um so I I haven't really I haven't I haven't
felt like any of that has been addressed it hasn't really felt like um in terms of sort of like
the emotional well-being of like the student body um I haven't really seen any real um it hasn't
felt like any of that's been handled but you know addressed either um I also the other thing that
kind of frustrated me is there hasn't been anything that's um um um like that's that's said anything
contrary to the misinformation that was being kind of spewed at the event um like what was on
those TVs was medically inaccurate you know videos of what an abortion is and um at least at
least that's what I remember hearing from like remember seeing myself and then hearing from fellow
students who have like a they're like in the medical field have that background I remember hearing
that the images were medically inaccurate and there was nothing from really anyone that sort of
that even though I know that even though I know there are tons of students who are aware of that
there are a lot of people who aren't and there are very likely a ton of students who walk by
thinking oh this is what abortion is I um I'm not gonna support this anymore because that's babies
right and I could see someone who doesn't have that that you know either the understanding or the
you know the medical background to understand that what was being shown and said is um inaccurate but
I think that's my other concern is that there was no there was no real um I can't think of the word
but basically nobody addressed and refuted any refuted that's what I was thinking of um any of what
was being said or shown at that event especially not from like our administration and I don't know
if that's something that you know we should expect from them but um part of me feels like you know
there should have been something done about it I don't know what exactly but it just
it didn't sit right with me that there was nothing done about that you know
misinformation and just you're mongering to be fair as well definitely definitely yeah
because they they did send out I remember some some emails but it was none of them really addressed
like the student body it was all about the free speech aspect of it exactly yeah that's what
I remember too I don't remember anything about I mean they may have been a mention of like you know
prioritize your well-being but I'd have to go back emails and look so I don't remember anything either
yeah whatever whatever they may have said wasn't clearly wasn't impactful in in a meaningful way
right um so I guess you know drawing you know moving from that speaking of impact um
um do you how do you feel like witnessing and participating in in you know these counter protests
or just in the general like uh general opposition I suppose um how do you feel like it impacted you
as a person your emotional physical well-being your physical health you know any of that
um or any other kind of impact I think um so up like right now I guess like thinking about how
it's affecting me now it definitely still um personally like it still makes me upset to think
about the fact that it happened um particularly my like just my emotional health is being
impacted at the moment because of what's going on with Professor Overdeck um so I think at the
moment that's kind of like where it's impacting me right now but back then kind of in the few like
weeks and like the few months that right after it had happened um I think it was just sort of like
definitely I could feel that my emotional health and my well-being had you know kind of decreased um
I'm not sure entirely about my physical health I probably need to do more like reflecting
to see if it really impacted you with my physical health but I do remember just feeling more
because I think as a person as somebody who very like holds social justice ideals very close to my
heart um it anytime something like horrible happens like you know in my immediate life you know
in the world around me I feel it very very personally um and so it definitely like
right especially right after what happened with um TPU essays event it was very very like
um a part of me was you know questioning like you know what is my role as you know a supposed
advocate what is my role as an activist you know what how can I do more to prevent stuff like this
from happening and so it was a lot of that questioning and a lot of just feeling very very upset and
I guess like I guess sad is kind of the word I'm thinking of it's like just feeling like there's
nothing I can do and being hopeless and that didn't do anything good for my personal health for
sure um because I don't obviously nobody really likes feeling that way um and it didn't um
that hasn't really changed since it's less so now um with in regard to this specific
counter protest and event but I also will say that um seeing the counter protest though so that
was that was as in regard to the actual protesters that can see the counter protesting and the
amount of students who were coming together to um to like you know refute all this and protest
against it that was very very um inspiring isn't quite the word I'm thinking of but it was very like
um I think empowering is the word I'm thinking of it just felt very like okay there are a lot
of students on this campus who know this is wrong um and you know it just it was kind of a
reminder that you know I'm not the only one who probably feels the way I feel um and that there
are people who care about you know what's right and what's wrong um and so the counter protest itself
felt like a very just they felt like uh in terms of they definitely like helped my with me helped with
kind of um like grappling with the whole situation um because having that in the back of my mind
knowing that that the counter protest took place was very just I almost almost validating maybe a little
bit too just to see that you know there are other students who care and there there are other
students who know that and also administrators and teachers who know that or teachers um professors
who know that this is wrong um and in that help sort of improve sort of my mental state at the time
as well mm-hmm yeah yeah I kind of want to I guess circle around on that that kind of
empowering aspect of it because I think it's really easy to kind of focus on like oh I felt bad
about like it made me feel uh like terrible because of all the protesting and um but like focusing
in more on that like empowerment aspect and like knowing that there's there's community there uh
did it like how did it it how did it feel to kind of connect this with um specifics like how did
it feel to learn about uh professor overdikes situation not just you know obviously the arrest and
and uh everything is is traumatizing in its own right um but knowing you know the other half of
that knowing that there was an instructor who went uh and you know did did something about it like
how did that kind of also make you feel I think I was like initially when I heard about it I was
it also would kind of impressed I was like wow this is a professor this is somebody who teaches
here this is somebody who is very well um she's well um known she's you know students really
like her she teaches some really incredible classes and the other thing with press or overdike as
well is back in 2021 um my student org this was before I was president this is when we had
our former president um we had held an election day faculty panel I think or 2020 excuse me um we
had to have like a held a faculty panel and professor overdike was actually one of the panelists
and so you know interacting with her in that sense in in the sense of the panel and you know from
that perspective and then kind of seeing how she um like acts on what she you know believes in
was very just like you know the fact that she was willing to sort of do that was just I was like wow
that that's incredible I because I it's not that you know I don't want to it's just that I as a person
I'm not that like I would so love to be able to feel like I could just go mess with someone's
you know protest in a good way um but I know personally like what I really do it maybe not
something maybe I should work to doing because it's a good thing um but just you know seen that she's
a professor she's you know she's got a career she has a life and she you know took this massive
risk doing this and you know ultimately she's got the support of so many students and a lot of other
faculty members um maybe not the school um well definitely not the school at least is how I'm
understanding it um but it was just I think part of that contributed to sort of feeling like wow this is
you know I was impressed but and then of course there's also the side of me that's like well there
are also people who are going to think that this was wrong because of how it's played out because
of how people have spoken about her because she was receiving hate mail because she was receiving
you know hateful emails um at least that's what I heard from some of her students um and so there's
also that side of things where it's kind of like you know what how is this going to impact students
more broadly because there's how there's how I you know envisioned that there's how I experienced it
from the side of like activists and students who particularly in WGSS who want to support her but
then there's also all of this horrible stuff I'm hearing about how she's being harassed and being
sent hateful emails from students from you know from wherever um but yeah yeah yeah it's uh there's a
very mixed feelings I think very easy to have mixed feelings um would you say that like
is there anything that you feel like you learned about yourself as a result of participating in
witnessing uh either event really or or the combination of events um I think part of me I think
I definitely like sort of took question what I really like kind of stubbornly and because um
like all of the questions about free speech particularly with um the TPUSA event um I was hearing
because I do work with a lot of people who um like work for you know like student activities for example
and um other like like they work for other like administrators and staff members on campus
and in those circles I was hearing a lot about how the students who were counter protesting were
you know were in violation of free speech because they weren't allowing the speaker to speak and
part of I was very conflicted I think and I still kind of am very very conflicted about
understanding where the line is between um like almost activism and free speech like that's kind
of how it's been that's kind of how I've been thinking about it in my head um since then
and so I think one of the things I've kind of learned about myself from that is that um I think I
think I just need to get a part of me feels like I need to just figure out where it is I um
almost like not necessarily where I stand because for in in both situations 100 percent I don't
I support the people who counter protest at 100 percent and I don't um support any of the
harmful rhetoric that was being spewed by the people who were speaking and protesting
anti-version and Ian Hayworth Howard um but part of me like needs feels like I need to figure out
well what is my understanding of how free speech impacts the way that someone does activism and
where do those sort of like conflicting seemingly conflicting um ideals come in place and so
I think one of the things I've learned is that I either have to be comfortable um you know
perhaps veering into territory that could result in like somebody saying that I'm violating
free speech or I you know choose the route where I don't say anything and I don't get involved and I
you know kind of keep to myself and do whatever activism I want to do on my side instead of getting
involved in the stuff that's really like you know trying to get at these serious issues on campus
and in the world generally um and part of me feels like choosing that you know the easy way out is just
not the right way to go and I also want to be someone who is known who not known but I also want to
be somebody who does actively support my fellow students my fellow you know peers activists advocates
in my community in the world around me so I think that's kind of sort of in terms of what I've learned
is that I'm questioning that and that I need to figure out kind of where I stand um and not necessarily
where I stand but you know how I'm going to conduct myself going forward as someone who would like
to say that they're an activist. Definitely and I think you kind of answered the the next question
that I have here but I'll ask it anyway in case there's anything you feel like you'd like to add
and that is in retrospect how have you changed because of this experience either personally or
politically? Yeah probably similar to what I was saying I think in terms of my like political beliefs
and sort of more what I mean like like like Lisa social justice and all that I've sort of but I
have definitely been pushed further into not like like I've part like I've been in a good way I've
been pushed more so I hate the way that we categorize things in the political system even though
that's part of what I do with my club but like I guess you could say I've been pushed further left
like I definitely I was already kind of in actually in large part due to the WGSS minor I very much
had like I have very strong like you know anti-capitalist anti- you know this distribution of the
distribution of power that we like the society that we live in very much like against any of that
and very much in favor of like the ideals of socialism and you know like democratic socialism
that kind of thing and I think both of these events pushed me even further in that direction on
that side of like the political you know whatever even though I hate saying that because I would so
much rather we all just understand that you know we need to head more in a direction results in equity
like real equity and equality but um yeah I think I think in terms of I think that's pretty much it
is that I've just kind of been pushed further into what I already really believe is um you know
the best for achieving like a place that everyone's able to live and doesn't have to you know
worry about being harmed and being hurt for whatever identity they have. So yeah so like it galvanized
you I think is that's the word that I tend to be a fan of is like it galvanized you and the views
you already hold it sounds like. Yes exactly. So I guess from from there um is kind of thinking more
broadly about like the campus and the campus climate um so in your view what impact do these events
have on the campus climate. So I feel like and that now especially given the event that took place
a few weeks ago with Candace Owens I'm sure you heard about that um part of me feels like our campus
has become like there's part of me that feels like there's a community that's kind of formed
especially with the queer joy coalition that's come to come to be right so there's kind of this
community of students and faculty and staff who want to support marginalized students particularly
queer and trans students at the moment but just generally marginalized students but I also feel like
the campus is becoming almost like more hostile more kind of like there are more there are also
a lot of students who are feeling unsafe on campus um there are a lot of people who you know with
regard to the anti-abortion protests like there are a lot of people who are still shaken from that
including myself like knowing that that could pop up on campus anytime again they could come back
and say we want to come back and university has no choice but to allow them you know like I think
sort of seeing number one that there's this element of university saying that they can't
disallow basically anybody from coming on campus to speak there's also the element of there are
students on campus who are not feeling safe and you know that's just sort of that's going to that
that exists and it's probably going to just amplify over time but there's also students who and
and you know administrators and staff who want to support the student who aren't feeling safe and
the student who are feeling so be in down from what's happened in the last few months on campus and
so I think there's like I think there's very mixed feelings on campus that are generally kind of
on campus climate that are generally kind of in my sense negative I don't necessarily know if
they're positive in terms of um you know how students are feeling how the university is handling
what's happening on campus and how um this how this organ how organizations are choosing to continue
doing things to fuel the fire right like the way that I kind of saw what the way that I kind of
saw what happened with the Candice OAS event OAS event is that you know that was that was I mean it
was intentional right the point in the way I view it as that was intentional they did that to um
you know grinder or reaction from the students who protested their last event you know it was
it wasn't like they were just you know doing that because they all wanted to hear from Candice OAS
like we all know she's a horrible person right really really really backward beliefs um and so I think
I think I think I think what I worry about on campus is that there are going to be people who
you know and I do believe in free speech so it's not like it's also hard for me to say that these
groups shouldn't be allowed to do anything um because if like because if that's if that's
something I lined with and theoretically someone could say that my student organization which very
much cares about ideals of social justice couldn't do anything as well and so there's also that
element where I'm kind of like well what does this mean for you know how organizations conduct
themselves on campus in the future how what does this mean for um yeah I think that's just kind of
you know it leaves a lot of questions on the table I think it sounds like yes exactly and like
you know how this how all of this goes into campus climate is you know we've got students on
campus who the majority of the student body is seeing all of these conflicting viewpoints which you
know isn't necessarily a wrong thing but I think it's a problem when there are people who are
actively harming and hurting students on campus that are you know um with their words maybe not
with their action but with their words at least when they come speak on campus and then there's
also all these groups that are trying to you know highlight what we can do to you know remedy things
like trans like systemic transphobia and um you know racism and all of that um and you know
the oppression of you know women in general when it comes to reproductive not women
umberthing people in general when it comes to reproductive justice um so yeah I think that's kind
of what I'm feeling about sort of where our campus climate is at awesome um would you say like did
you feel do you feel that your experience with the like TPUSA counter protest at all
influenced your like participation in or your experience of the counter protest at the
anti-opportion demonstration I think I don't necessarily I don't really think so I think if
anything it made me want to attend the anti-abortion demonstration even more as a counter protestor
um I don't I don't remember if I thought if there was any thought in the back of my mind that
felt like it might you know spiral out of control um yeah I don't I mean I think obviously
kind sort of kind of did with Professor Overdike um not with the action that she took but with
what happened afterward um with the arrest and you know not being able to teach but um yeah I
don't necessarily think there was like a super strong um influence on whether or not I wanted to
attend I think I just felt even more compelled to attend because I wanted to make sure that you know
harmful um harmful beliefs were not being um given a platform that they don't deserve um and then
I know do you assess the administrations uh and or uh the university police departments
response to these events what is your what is your feelings and thoughts on that yeah with the
administration I think part of me is like because I'm upset with how they you know with how they
responded how they handled both events but part of me also um like part of me also is conflicted
because I know that they have to be very careful with what they do and don't say about you know
what's happened on campus because if they say something that they could if they say something that's
you know perhaps in violation of free speech they can be in trouble if they somebody could that
could be open to them being sued right like that's a concern um and so part of me like you know
understands what position the administration is in as a public campus but part of me also is just
like well where's the protection for the students who are being hurt where is the where's the you
know the real desire to create an inclusive campus um if this is what is being allowed to take
place on campus especially because counter protesters were not positively at least not I'm not
necessarily sure how well yeah actually in in the anti-abortion event as well counter protesters were
not positively impacted I don't think by like actually being there I think you know
there were people who have harmful beliefs who were given a platform on campus
and that ultimately caused detriment to students while being it caused particularly queer and
trans students with the TPUSA event um I'm just general student body and so you know even though
we have to you know adhere to free speech what about you know the students who are literally on
campus to go to school what about students who are trying to who are there for their education
not to walk through campus and see like disturbing images of you know mutilated fetuses right like I
just think that's that's the conflict of having there is you know sure you've got your you've got
your you know how you have to respond to these events with regard to free speech and with regard
to student conduct but where is the parent understanding for the students who are being harmed by
this on campus right right especially I especially thought about a lot all like there are definitely
students who've had miscarriages there are definitely students who've had abortions who
there may even be students who were coerced into abortions that exactly that this rhetoric is not
you know it's harmful to them as well right exactly I mean yeah that was in the back of my
and think about it but 100 percent you were definitely right I know somebody actually on campus who
had a miscarriage someone that I interacted with um and so yeah it just no it just it's upsetting to
not see any support going to those students from our administration at least it's not what at
least it's not how I've taken the multitude of emails that have been sent out you know all the
notices that have been sent out I haven't none of that has really come across as we support xyz
students it's all just been like this is what we have to deal with we can't not allow these people
to participate in whatever on our campus um but these towner protesters were wrong because of xyz
like that's all I'm saying yes right um so moving forward uh what do you think would be important
for future students and scholars to know about what occurred in in these uh in these events
yeah I think with regard to the anti abortion protest I I think one of my hopes is that
students will what do you think would be important for future students to know I think
I think they need for in terms of the anti-abortion protest I will I think what's very important is
that students know that what a lot a lot of what they what this group was saying was inaccurate
it wasn't reflective of you know like like I don't want to say real science because it doesn't sound
like this doesn't sound very like I think it sounds like I mean it for you right like like you know
what they were saying wasn't based in I was based in you know systemic oppression it was based in
it it was just based in a lot of I mean part of it was just inaccurate
quotings of you know scientific studies and research um and so I want students to know that you
know there was a lot of misinformation there and I also think it's important for students to know that
like I think it's also important for students to know that what professor overdike did wasn't
wrong like what she did wasn't um like even though you know maybe she unplugged a TV she unplugged
a TV that's about it that's as far as it goes you know there was nothing there was no gross
violation of anything that was committed that result that warranted the response that it got
from students who didn't like what she did and from um UPD um so I think that's I think that's
probably one of the things with regard to the anti-abortion I also think it's important
to know for that for students to know that there was a counter protest and that there were
students who don't who don't agree with what was said um just so that they're they're aware that
that there were those kind of like those two different sort of there was distinct you know two
different sides I guess per se there were the protesters and there was the counter protestors who
um very vehemently disagree with you know what they were saying um and I think with
yeah I think that's probably most of my answer I might have to think about it a little bit more
I might think of more stuff later but um yeah super fine you can always you can always uh
like can't like let me know if there's anything that you'd like to to add or change or anything like
that also yeah um because that kind of I think is about everything every question that I I feel like I
have um I'm sure there will be questions I wish I hadn't thought to ask when I like go through
and watch this um but is there anything do you want to add anything that you think is important or
that you thought I might have missed um about your experience personally or about just anything
that that we covered I don't think so um thank you for doing this for doing this project I'm
I'm excited to see kind of like where it goes and kind of how all of the other interviews that were
done um sort of end up so I wanted to say that for sure absolutely but no I don't think there's
anything else um that I want to add I think I pretty much I said a lot yeah yeah for sure so um
but if I think of anything I'll definitely let you know also do you know awesome all right so thank
you for your time and participation um so for the purpose of creating a historical record especially
your experiences and your perspective is so valuable so thank you very much for doing this
yeah um I'm gonna go ahead and hit stop recording if that's fine
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