Alright, first I'm going to read a consent form so you know that your participation is
going to be in the archives. Thank you for your participation and your willingness to
share your memories and your knowledge about this historical event. The purpose of this
research is to create a public record of experiences from people who witnessed or participated
in counter-protests that occurred at UAlbany in the spring of 2023.
Questions can be answered with respect to either or both counter-protests that occurred
in relation to the following events. Tuesday, April 4, 2023, TPUSA's event for future
speaker Ian Hayworth. On Wednesday, April 19, 2023, anti-abortion demonstration with LED screens
featuring graphic images of aborted fetuses on the podium in front of the campus center.
This interview is for oral history assignment for research seminar class in the Department of
Women's Gender and Sexuality Studies at the University of Albany. By doing the interview,
you indicate that you are 18 or over and that you voluntarily are choosing to participate to be an audio or
video recorded. I will use your interview as the basis for an essay assignment. This video and
or audio recording of your interview may be archived in digital form for future viewing and may be
displayed in full or in part on a public internet site for use with appropriate citation.
Additionally, the faculty member, interviewer or other students in class conducting these interviews
may desire to produce a resulting research paper, research article, website, and or film.
Your name will be attached to your story as a recorded experience and public record.
Do you agree to participate? I agree. The Department of WGSS greatly appreciates your
participation in this oral history project. Let me also say that there are no right or wrong answers.
I am interested in your unique experiences, knowledge and viewpoint. Please feel free to decline
to answer any question. The interview shouldn't take more than an hour before we proceed. Do you
have any questions? I don't have any questions. I'm excited to be here. I'm glad you are.
Because you get to get it all out and this might be... I've been waiting for it so... It's like
let's start on the scene. Closure. I just got to be liberating. Okay, I like that.
So let's just re-account on the events that you attended first and participated.
So how did you come to know about the anti-abortion demonstration?
So I'll talk about the other one first because that was the first one. Was it the first?
Okay, so that was the first. Yeah, so I was a part of the Student Association. I'll introduce myself.
Sierra Madrano, I'm currently a senior at the University of Double Majoring in Psychology,
Women, Gender and Sexuality Studies. I currently work for SUNY S.A. I'm the Director of
Immersed Equity and Inclusion and I also work for you all at Niko on campus. So last year I was part
of the Student Association. I was the Vice President and I originally heard about
incoming for TPUSA about two or three weeks in advance just because how the process works
when student organizations request a room as they put in a request form with Campus Center
Management. And so it was definitely on our radar but the biggest thing is when you're a part of
student government taking oath for all student organizations basically saying that no matter
what their mission statement is whether you agree or disagree with it, you have to allow them to
actively be able to express kind of what they're aiming to get across campus regardless of
you know whether you may think it's a little... so it was definitely brought up at our leadership
meeting and yeah that was the first time I heard about it and then the anti-abortion thing.
I heard about it like a few days before it happened so I was definitely more prepared for
the TPUSA one than I was the anti-abortion one. And what were your initial reactions when
you heard about the first on TPUSA's first? It was crazy. I really thought it was crazy because
especially Ian like the type of rhetoric that he spreads in regards to like trans people
and like how they don't really exist. I think it's really harmful for certain communities on campus.
And the first thing that came to my mind was like the whole free speech thing right because I was
like the first thing that got put on the table and I constantly repeated this sentiment of like
okay free speech is free but who is it free for? Do you know what I mean? And like what kind of
consequences come out of that when you're allowed to put rhetoric like that out in the air especially
to people on campus where people not only live on campus but most of our lives are on campus you
know like people eat sleep you do work on campus you socialize on campus like all of our aspects
of life circulator on campus so like where does the line get drawn?
And do you think like having the two weeks in advance to know that like make it hard for you to
make me a little anxious because we were the only ones that were initially aware of about it
and it wasn't something that I can go out and you know be like hey guys just letting you know like
this is about to happen because once again like I did take an oath um and kind of like some of these
things were confidential and we were still working out what we were gonna do on our and the student
government because we knew that like the moment that it was gonna happen. It was gonna hit the fan. Yeah.
You're just like waiting for that to happen. Yeah so there's a lot of planning on the back and because
we knew that something was gonna happen um we just didn't know what it was so we were just running
through like the different like what emails are we gonna send out you know what legislation
are we gonna work on um so it was just like a whole bunch of background work um and what were
here in this reaction to the anti-abortion demonstration? Thank you. Um I always so I work I also have
another job I work at a colony center at famous footwear and every time I drive down central lab
you know the uh plan parenthood is right there and there's always people standing outside um but
it was never to this extreme uh from my understanding this group was from Canada and they were trying
to travel through all those sunis to kind of have these protests on campus um I think when it comes
to abortion people are definitely gonna have like various opinions on it and you know feel how they
want to feel about it based in like the legend based on how you grew up based on your social identity
um but I definitely didn't expect massive screens to be on campus especially showing like the
images that they did like I think that was crazy there's there were notes sort of like trigger warnings
or no it was just kind of like a massive blown up screen for everybody to see you know some people
weren't even aware that that was even happening you know so to like be on your way to class like
you're having a great ass day and then you look over and there's like dead babies on the screen you
know like it's kind of tough okay um did you hear about it from any other places like any other
organizations before maybe the TPUSA event happened like what maybe opinions or feelings that you
hear about um so I know the one with TPUSA there were a lot of feelings of why are we allowing
this on campus the biggest thing is that the student activity fee that everybody pays it kind of
gets put into a collective and then it gets uh spread out into organizations based on like
involvement how many members they have um so the biggest concern was like you know why why is my
money going towards this um and this is not something that I agree with so why is this a thing
but I think that kind of perspective can work both ways especially when we're looking at like
liberals and conservatives you know conservatives never agree with liberal things but we fund that
and same thing like liberals never agree with conservatives but we also have to fund that um so
there was a lot of that and then the uh anti-abortion thing I don't really hear much about it I just
knew people are gonna go out and protest counter protest um but I didn't expect there to be so many
people there there were so many people in the the podiums contributed to that I definitely think so
I think it was also just students trying to protect other students that didn't feel comfortable being
there um and I that's one thing that I love about our campuses that people will stand up for the
minority and advocate for things that they feel are wrong not only for themselves but for other people
um so that's something that I really appreciate uh at UA.
Who did you talk to about the TPUSA event while you were in those two three weeks waiting?
So we have leadership meetings once a week um those few weeks I believe we went to two meetings
a week just so we can kind of digest it as an administration figure out what we were gonna do
student activities played a large hand in that as well uh typically all the higher up people would
come to our meetings and kind of just make sure that things were like running smoothly even outside of
the protests um so we spoke to them about that I spoke to the head of student activities at the time
which is Pamela Alexander um and I told her you know like I really wanted to go to this meeting you
know like and I really want to go just to kind of like see what's gonna happen because I don't think
any of us expected like people to get arrested and kind of like all of the things that ended up
actually happening um and I told her you know like I really want to go in protest because it's so
fucked up you know like excuse my French but you know to like I said just to like allow that rhetoric
on campus and like you know that people don't feel safe and you know my job as student government
is to advocate for the student voice you know like that's my job so the fact that I kind of had my
hands tied in a situation where this is actively my job but in the same role it's kind of not um
really like sent me an aspiral and then after it happened um Christoccus actually came to our
leadership meeting and then that was a whole lot of other thing and itself who was Pamela again but
it was her uh you can look it up I think she runs student activities okay um they work in the
office right across from the student association so um and who uh ready to ask who we talk about
the anti-borschen with yeah the anti-borschen one wasn't really spoken about yeah just because I
think the difference from our perspective was that uh the TPUSA one was more of like an event
happening through a student organization versus like we're an open campus so people can like people
come and do show like this you know what I mean it like it's allowed because we are open um so I
definitely think the TPUSA one was more of our focus because it was coming from a student group
on the new we were kind of kind of receive that backlash of like the student activity fee and like
harmful rhetoric like everything in that realm and that's probably what you know compelled or
motivated you to attend the counter protest yeah absolutely I think the biggest thing with that
was that I wasn't allowed to go to the first event so I every opportunity I can get and getting
involved um and seeing ways and I can advocate I did in every capacity that I could I get that um
from the start to the end of your attendance at the anti-borschen one um can you describe like
what felt like to be there types of people you saw and what did you see I saw a whole range of people
a lot of people came from the queer communities and a lot of people also came from student
government um a lot of people don't realize we're massive student government right we have like
three branches um and all these branches comprise of at least 50 people minimum um so there was
a lot of us that went out there as I mentioned before because we couldn't go to the other thing um in
terms of feelings it was super overwhelming you know especially because this is not something I've
ever experienced head on um and like seeing these images and seeing people stand behind them so
proudly you know like stand behind the pro um the anti-borschen yeah just like all of the pictures
that were up on the screen like the fact that you feel comfortable kind of showing these things
to college kids it's over there I mean what did you see on their side like what did it look like
they were just they were just predominantly white you know like and I think that plays a big role
into thinking about like abortion access and who actually has access to it and the reasons why
they have access to it and why they utilize these resources um being a woman of color I definitely
think that it was more of like a deeper personal thing versus to them it was kind of just something
that was going to be an uproar for students and they just wanted to get that right a lot of people
and how did you participate how did you react and um mingle in with the crowd so I tried to play
a background role as much as I could just because I knew the role that I played in student government
and not gonna lie I didn't really want to get in peach so just kind of walked around um I was
reading a lot of the signs that people had because that was a big thing there was a lot of
signage a lot of chanting both sides are just just our side predominantly and all of the students
that were there you know everybody had posters there were people you know throwing around condoms
for fun like we don't really need this like condoms contraceptives are an option um
yeah just a lot of observing because I think it's important in situations like that to see that
because then I can take that information and go back and see you know like things that we can
improve and work on to make people feel safer what was the weather like that day
oh this was a long time ago I think I don't think it was that cold um I think I had like a little
scrum like a hoodie and a vest like it was a little breezy um but it definitely wasn't cold enough
for people to be like this is not something that I want to go to you know right like right so that
right because the next question is really like what did it feel like to be there and I think the
weather just didn't matter if people just wanted to be that environment didn't matter yeah and I
think that's the biggest thing going back to like solidarity and standing with each other like I
would assume that even if it was snowing people would have been out there you know if it was pouring
rain you still would have been out there yeah and just to stand up for others that can't um yeah
I don't think any weather any conditions would have impacted that and I think we see that when we
compare both of the events you know one was inside um when was that night and then the other one
was during the day outside so you know like the two differences people still came people still
supported so it just shows how strong our community is yeah I agree um what did you know how did
you kind of process it afterwards you know how long we've even had the counter protest for so I was
there for about like 30 minutes um and like I said when I went to like every time I passed by
central avenue I kind of see these people um so it's not something that I'm like unfamiliar with but
this was the first time that I faced something like this head on um it's just crazy you know like an
especially going back to a whole sentiment of like who has like access to abortion and why people
use methods of abortion you know like I've known people that have been sexually assaulted and they
needed abortions you know or like in situations of rape like so like for these people to kind of
hone in on just this one idea of like abortion just kills innocent lives like it's completely
ridiculous to me because I think that excludes people's like personal experiences and you know what
people go through as individual humans that you know are already fully developed and you know like
where in our 20s you know like we've been here for a half minute you know so it's like for these
people to just be like inconsiderate of others experiences and just to focus on this one thing
it's kind of crazy yeah um so those are really your thoughts and concerns that you left with um
who did you talk about it with did you wait to talk about it did you
were you texting people right away like oh my gosh what's going on like yeah so what did you
talk about it we have a leadership group chat um yeah we do and it's just all of us um
i was uh gifted enough to be able to have an administration that we were all friends ultimately
so you know we spoke about this as real people you know and I everybody's like this is crazy
I can show you videos after two like it was just insane and a lot of it was kind of just
consoling each other in a sense um because like I said none of us have really been through this type
of thing before um and we were kind of all navigating it as leaders in the same space um
so it was just a lot of like leadership communication and then like I said the biggest thing was
the next day when I go into the office that was something that I was going to be faced with
so how we were going to navigate that space like that was the first thing I came to my mind like
okay what are we going to do now like what are our next steps because I know people are going to
be knocking on office door and we need to have something to say so you really
know that you put your leadership roles first but as a student you felt more responsible to talk
about it because of what you do yeah absolutely like I said I think my job in taking the oath to
vouch for the student voice was a big thing and especially knowing that I had the platform that I
did you know like I have the mic that I do even every one's at set you know like I get to
that mic and I get to say something um I think that definitely sparked my initiative to get involved
with that um if you had concerns were they addressed and were they listened to
so they were not they were they were addressed I don't I don't really think they were listened to
so going back to the whole meeting with Christalkus after the arrests at the TV USA event um he
came to our meeting I remember really been at meeting crying I cried because I feel like
administration they don't really listen you know and it's like as much as I want to advocate for
something there's always like a but or like and unfortunately like I don't want to hear that
right now you know like there's students that are being arrested for this incident there's students
that don't even feel safe living in their fucking dorm rooms that we pay thousands of dollars to be
you know and you want to sit here because their biggest thing was like free speech you know and like
it needs to be free for everyone like regardless if you agree but it's harmful you know and like
harmful is not free and that was the biggest thing that I definitely tried to push during that meeting
and you know a lot of the response that I got were like well thank you for being so passionate
you know and like thank you for advocating for people and it's like okay but how much longer do
we have to advocate until something actually gets done you know and that trickles into the next
question do you have any ongoing concerns so that would be I think well we saw the event with
Candace Owens um I was there and the organization knows what it's doing do you know what I mean like
they already knew that there was an uproar on campus last year so they're just doing it again
and they're gonna continue doing it. TPUSA or yeah TPUSA they brought Candace Owens and they
brought in hardening or whatever like it's name is. Yeah they know what they're doing you know and I
think the biggest thing is like now because even though I'm no longer part of like the student
association I'm still talking to a lot of the people that were part of the coalition and I still
have other leadership positions on campus that may not be directly related to government but now
it's just how do we protect each other because we know that the university is not going to do that for us.
So when witnessing the anti-abortion event how did it impact you as a person and it did it affect
your you know physical health your well-being or just your emotional health like as an overall how
do you feel at least you know if it did. So I was severely stressed last year like super stressed
I wasn't getting any sleep and then when this came you know I was already doing other things
in terms of like advocacy work on campus I was planning the concert for the student association
and we had all these large events in the spring so my mental health and my physical health were
ready kind of shit you know what I mean and I think when the first TPU essay thing happened
it was so overwhelming that I got a little cold you know like I had a little cough a little sniffle
and it was just from an emotional perspective there's just sad you know that like sad that people
are allowed to do this sad that the university isn't protecting people and the capacity that they
should and can you know because a lot of this was like well you know they can't really do this but you
can you know and like you run this university and like you run it because we're here paying for it
do you know what I mean like if we weren't in if we weren't paying these thousand of dollars you
would not have a job you know like Christophe's would not have a job of you know Pamela Alexander
wouldn't have a job any faculty and staff the exam campers would not have jobs so I feel like in a
sense you take us in as your kids you know like an expensive yeah yeah yeah responsible for us and so
the fact that like nothing was even done about it or it was kind of just like trying to feed
around the bush like even the emails that they sent out were so bullshit and like everybody knew
it was bullshit you know so like you didn't even have the decency I would have preferred if they
wouldn't even set anything at all you know because like the amount of like fakeness that just came
out of their emails just felt like super disrespectful yeah so you're just you know ask questions
you know so what did you what do you think you learned more about yourself as a result of
participating in this event in both events or experiencing both events I love coalition building
I absolutely love coalition building and that's something that I really put together for myself
last year when this happened the queer joy coalition is something that came out of this
and it was people that I was working with while this was going on um any of a few people that were
part of the coalition like from starting it versus people that were just helping with like
spreading information and like there was a lot of care that came from these people regardless
if it impacted them as like individuals it was more of like a university effort you know I'm like
it just shows that people are fucking great you know like people are great and people can come
together and use whatever platform they have to to have motion you know like to make things move
and like the biggest thing that I learned is that if somebody else is I'm gonna do it for you got
to do it for yourself do you think it made you change politically at all or just
I'm a liberal I love being a liberal um I don't think in whatever make me change being conservative
just because I'm definitely aware of the fact that like people utilize these resources for
different reasons and even when looking at trans individuals like you should give people the
respect to identify how they choose to identify and live comfortably in the way that they choose
to live you know because I am you know I'm straight you know I'm a woman you know like I
identify in all the kind of like social identities that I was given or kind of like the pre-existing
ones that are typically given to people um but I was I mean that I can't advocate for others you
know and that's something that I learned too like just because I don't fall in this category
does it mean that I can't help out and be an ally um
I'm gonna move on to the impact of campus climate okay there we go um
in your view you know what did or what impact did these events you know have on campus climate as a
whole I know you mentioned you know can this oh it's coming you know it's a result of they know
what they're doing have you seen a change anywhere else is there more polarization possibly after
or so I think the biggest thing that came out of it initially was anger you know and like I think
when we because I do have to like some videos from the event with Ian like it was just angry you
know like yeah it was anger not even just towards the organization not only towards a speaker but
you know going back to the university faculty and staff and like university officials that are
supposed to protect you those are the same people that are arresting people on campus you know so
it was kind of like that thing um but I definitely think it built a stronger bond amongst everybody
like even when this whole campus oh and this thing happened there were so many other events happening
on campus to pull people away from it because they knew it wasn't safe um so I definitely think it
just brought more awareness um in terms of the university I don't really have much of an inside
look in terms of like officials and like what they're kind of working on you know they always send
the bullshit about free speech but like that's the only thing that they ever talk about you know
like do you have something else to say about the situation and like are there other things that you
feel are necessary to talk about or do you just not care about everybody at all you know like the
free speech part you know they don't address the feelings that come about yeah they don't express
and even during um I did run for president and during my presidential debate you know that was
one of the questions that came up knew it was gonna come up and I was just running against one
other person and he hesitated to grab the mic first you know and I think that says a lot about
kind of what the position means to everybody but I knew I was gonna grab the mic first regardless
of if it meant I lost my seat in the election if that meant you know that like people were gonna
hate me and then I just brought up the same sentiment of like cool free speech is free but like
we really need to be analyzing who it impacts the ways in which it's impacting people and how those
people have to carry that burden for other people to use this concept of free speech you know like
and then it also just spirals into like diversity equity and inclusion you know of like okay you
bring all these minority groups on campus and cool like your numbers on the website will go up you
know so like people of color queer communities you know like you you claim that you have all these
safe spaces for people but then when it's actually time to invoke those safe spaces they're not
where to be found so I think that just builds into like the i values and how they're like super
face level and like value level and they really offer no insight into like actually protecting people
and giving people equitable opportunities to live as who they are you know so you've touched
on the administrations you know how you assess you know their response to the events do you have
anything any feelings specifically towards you PDs response I think it was ridiculous I think
a university faculty staff as a whole I think it was really ridiculous and it was sad you know to
see people really come out their shell to advocate for others was super important and I think it was
like a moving moment and then to arrest people and you know I know meseo was arrested um and he
wasn't really able to talk about it you know and it's kind of like to have all this traumatic stuff
happen to you and then you PDs like actually you can't talk about it to other people yeah yeah
but that's my biggest thing like where is this free speech that you claim to so heavily push you know
and if it was such free speech for everybody people wouldn't have been arrested you know like if
it was free speech Renee overdike wouldn't have been arrested when she pulled the cord off of that
screen you know because like same way that they were practicing their free speech is the same way
Renee was the same way all the students got arrested was so like what is the difference you know like
so yeah so moving forward do you think you know what would be important for future students and
scholars to know about what occurred because of all that you could take your time with this one
thing for a second I think it's just an opportunity for everybody to analyze the power dynamics that
exists on campus and still exist you know like when you look at the people that are protesting
and you look at the people that are holding these events um I want people to notice skin color
I want people to notice age I want people to notice positions you know like what are these people
studying on campus you know are you a poly side major are you a WGS S major you know like how does
your view of the world shape this and like even when you look at power dynamics between the university
and students you know like although we ultimately had to say as student government in terms of like
where we wanted to go with it faculty and staff can shut that down in 2.5 seconds you know and then
like that free speech is no longer free because it goes against what kind of diversity wants you know
but like when it was with the university values and you know we're getting everybody an opportunity
that's okay um so I think just really looking at the power dynamics that existed within this
and just coalition building you know like stand up for people and like use everything in your
capacity that you can to protect the others and I think that although the events were tragic
what came out of them was a lot of bonds you know like I know people that I would have never spoken
to before because of this you know and other people have experiences to share to the world that
were like transformative to their lives you know um so yeah just stand up for others like don't be
scared you know like be a part of a movement and be a part of something bigger do you think others
share that they felt they had deeper connections afterwards have you heard that from other students
I have um I personally know that even from a leadership perspective within a student government
it made us a lot closer um because we all kind of shared the same sentiments and we were kind of
going through the waves and emotions together um so I know other people from that perspective
feel that way and then even with like the queer coalition um and like queer joy um those bonds
are way tighter now because we're protecting each other and it's sad to say that that's what
brings people together and that's you know that's the reason why we have to get closer is because
other people aren't protecting us but I think ultimately everybody's grateful for the people
that they had around them and the support that was there when others felt the support us
because I really think um this is something you know maybe your graduating class our graduating
class isn't not going to forget yeah during the college I would never forget this in my life you
know that's something that sticks with you um do you think I missed anything that you think is
important to growing up regarding both events I don't think so I just hope the university does
better in the future because I don't think this is going to be the first and last time that we see
something like this happening um but do better like that's my biggest thing from a university
perspective do better support the people that are here and you know genuinely want to get an
education and have a ready-to-set back by their social identities do more to protect those people
because those people already have to face things outside of the university and like for them to be
living here and actively participating in things that boost the university as a whole like they
should do a better job of protecting everybody well thank you for your time and participation
thank you for having me for the purpose of creating a historical record your perspectives and
experience are valuable
